December 21: saw the movie; feelings could only be expressed in gif form; screeched about my shiny new agonizing otp
December 22: the other otp; started dreaming up fix-fic AUs; assembled my thoughts about Jyn's arc; descended into more babbling; progressed to Vader relief; came to terms with Lucasfilm ignoring their own actors' ages to stick to the mandated 20-something leads; more screaming; God bless fandom; seriously, Jyn/Cassian shippers are amazing
December 23: explained Vader's murder puns; was corrected about literary terminology and sneered back. Representative excerpt:
The wordplay is entirely based on the multiple potential meanings of choke and of aspiration, not on any word serving multiple syntactic functions.
December 24: started grumping about extracanonical shit I find unconvincing and inconsistent; cringed over Cassian fics treating Spanish like Sindarin
December 25 (today!): accurately represented the filmmakers' interactions with our corporate overlord; helpfully assembled my favourite anguished author's notes from fellow shippers on AO3
There are a couple more (not counting my howling in the tags of various reblogged gifsets and manips and whatnot), but they're more substantial, so I'll probably do full crossposts.
Short version: I think a couple of the criticisms in terms of structure are legit, and also OH MY GOD I LOVE LOVE I LOVE THIS IS PROBABLY MY FAVOURITE SW SINCE EMPIRE OH GODDDDD ALSO TWO OTPS OUT OF ONE MOVIE WHAT A FILM A+++++
An anon asked me for a review, so my longer and more coherent review:
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If, theoretically, I were to try and finish a segment of one of my projects, would you want it to be:
If I were to finish a segment of one of my projects, which would you want it to be?
The Jedi and the Sith Lord (Star Wars | f!Luke AU)
we get dark, only to shine (The Borgias | Cesare/Lucrezia S1 AU)
tolerably well acquainted (P&P | Darcy/Elizabeth, canon-compliant | E's feelings at Pemberley onwards)
pro patria (Guild Wars 2 | mostly canon-compliant Ascalonian fic)
each new arrival (The Borgias | Vanozza gen)
Lady of the City (LOTR | f!Faramir AU)
- tolerably well acquainted
- pro patria
- each new arrival
- Other: recent projects here, general fic discussion here
It doesn't matter if Vader is redeemed "to you."
It. does. not. matter.
If you don't find Vader's redemption convincing, fine. If you don't find it satisfying, fine. If you don't find it well-developed, fine. If it doesn't fit into your moral vision, fine.
Disliking an element is not the same as denying it exists. Vader was redeemed in ROTJ. It happened. That's what his death scene is about. That's what the smiling glowy blue ghost is about. Dislike Vader's redemption all you want, but you cannot reasonably deny that it occurred.
Moreover, translating "I don't personally find Vader's redemption convincing" into "Kylo is unlikely to be given a redemption arc, and if he does, it will be bad" is just baffling. "I don't like a thing that happened in canon, therefore it's improbable that the canon will do that thing" = ???????????
Whether Ben claws his way to redemption or becomes the cackling one-dimensional villain of Kylo antis' dreams, this is a shitty, shitty argument.
Luke and Leia are visually paired in a lot of interesting ways, especially considered it wasn't conceived as a twin thing until ROTJ. I think Luke-Leia was always built on likeness.
Han and Leia definitely have commonalities, but ultimately it's a relationship about struggling to cross boundaries, and it's framed that way visually. Luke and Leia are framed as a natural pair. Neither ever stop to think of the oddity of princess-farmboy; they just fit. It works, and nobody needs to think about why.
I'm putting it strongly, but—that's part of the reason that the treatment of them as opposite counterparts is so ??????? They're framed together in opposition to Han, visually and dynamically, so often. They're given incredibly similar lines, sometimes simultaneously. I think it's also why ... people joke about the twin twist, but ultimately it works. You can look at these two tiny, unflinching idealists shouldering terrible trauma, and saying, tomorrow I'll grieve but today we carry on, and believe they've got the same blood in their veins.
An anon asked:
You know, I always wanted Leia to become a Jedi ever since I watched the original trilogy. I don't see it as a cop out that she isn't one, however. Mainly because I can see her not wanting anything to do with her father to contrast the 'I am a Jedi like my father before me.' And once her son started to fall down a similar path, I'd guess she actively wanted nothing to do with that. If it was a choice she made to contrast all of that, I think that makes sense too. So I'm OK either way
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Warning: I am aggressively indifferent to non-film material apart from novelizations and scripts. EU material, past and present, does not enter into my interpretations.
Okay. I think that how we understand Anakin’s identity as Darth Vader is … often flawed. Vader’s sense of his identity seems to get subsumed into Yoda’s, Obi-Wan’s, and Palpatine’s sense of his identity. But the whole idea of Anakin-in-the-past and Darth-Vader-in-the-present as ontologically separate is not an idea that Anakin himself ever subscribes to.
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Have you ever seen people explain why they think Kylo Ren is a whiny entitled MRA dudebro? Because I feel like I've only seen them take it as read and go from there.
The closest things I’ve seen to reasons are
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I love that we see into the mind of a former stormtrooper thru Finn's perspective. Yet I can't help but wonder why he shows no concern stabbing his fellow stormtroopers, probbaly to death, when he objected to killing before. I get the situations are different (helpless civilians who didn't deserve it). But Finn doesn't seem to mind potentially killing those who've been brainwashed and kidnapped just like he was. I would think he'd hesitate before killing anyone, let alone people similar to him
I loved that too!
I’ve seen a lot of people raise that concern, but honestly, I’m a bit “???” about the whole thing. Finn may or may not empathize with other stormtroopers in general, but he takes a firm zero tolerance policy towards people trying to kill him. That’s perfectly reasonable and justified.
For me, the situations really are different–so different as to be completely incomparable, in fact. Finn doesn’t object to killing; he objects to unprovoked slaughter. There’s no reason for that horror to carry over to fighting in the defence of his life and the lives of his loved ones. It could, for someone who came out the other side a pacifist, but it’s never remotely suggested that that’s Finn. He doesn’t shrink from violence; he just refuses to be a tool of mass murder.
Really, if he stopped to think of all the philosophical ramifications he would be dead.
Star wars questions: I've only seen the original trilogy and force awakens so far. And I was wondering - is it ever considered morally right for a Jedi to kill? I would think not, that murder is something only people on the dark side would use. Yet Obi Wan and Yoda seemed to imply that want Luke to kill his father for the greater good etc And I've always been surprised by this. Why do Jedi seem to approve of murder yet not associate it with dark or evil? Unless Jedi don't frown on murder?
Killing and murder are not the same thing, though I think the Jedi walk a pretty damn narrow line there.
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I'm also glad about the Ahsoka stuff for TCW/Rebels people! And Mark Hamill has been endlessly charming.
It's bittersweet for me, personally, because my sister is a massive Star Wars fan. It's the first remotely complex story I was able to introduce to her—she has some pretty severe developmental and mental disabilities, and we were told she'd never be able to read or follow the plot of a movie or anything. And she glommed onto it like nothing else, and asked about the Han and Jabba scene in ANH (all I have is the Special Edition)—she thought something about it didn't fit. She loves the prequels; Anakin/Vader is her favourite, though she also loves Padmé, Luke, and Leia. And she adored TFA, and came out of the theatre struggling between loving Kylo and loving Rey.
(She's in good company, obviously, though I kept her the hell away from the fandom for obvious reasons.)
Anyway, SW has been a bonding thing between the two of us, and I'm the one who tells her the info that gets dropped and shows her the trailers and whatnot. So seeing it all without her around is like ... still very cool, but bittersweet, particularly as she's told us she's unhappy and doesn't like eating junk food all the time (she's pre-diabetic), so we're all worried anyway.
I'm trying to keep the gloominess off Tumblr, though it's probably pretty clear that I'm on edge. So I'm trying to cheer myself up with P&P—I posted some P&P fic at AO3 that I'd never got around to crossposting, including a WIP (shhhh), and I'll probably see if I can scramble the Fíriel scraps into something. It's probably the most happy lalalala of my genderswaps; the Lucy stuff is very linear, Philadelphia demands a certain ... rigour, but the Fíriel stuff is just a scrap with Éowyn here, a ramble there, an aesthetic fancast, occasional present, whatever (someone even asked for Fíriel/Arwen once and it's still rattling around my gdrive!). So that's sort of my happy place and I might do that. We'll see!
title: The Jedi and the Sith Lord (1/?)
verse: Lucy Skywalker: my f!Luke AU, following from The Adventures of Lucy Skywalker and The Imperial Menace.
summary: Lucy emerges from carbon-freeze as the captive of Darth Vader.
For those who don't want to go through 50k of largely retelling canon, there's a detailed summary here and a comparatively short summary under the cut. But it's close enough to canon up to this point that you can probably go straight into the fic.
( 'Short' summary )
( Ch 1! )
(The immediate context was Kylo Ren wank, but I largely bypassed that for LET'S TALK ABOUT ETHICS.)
Do you mind explaining what you mean about diminished capacity? I have a hard time getting where it matters. Even if the intent is not the same the end result doesn't change. In order to not excuse it, they both need to be treated the same.. I don't get how diminished capacity would make Kylo Ren somehow less immoral than Hux. He still did those things. Some things cannot be made up for.
The concept that intent does not alter the morality of crime is … completely contrary to how criminal law works. And most systems of ethics.
I’m a lot more interested in ethics than further villain wank, which I feel I have very thoroughly addressed, so I’m talking about the role of intent and capacity in morality here.
TW for murder, torture, rape, suicide, and disassociative depression/mania
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