Agreed all over the place about the twins and their similarity to Dear Old Dad.
Yay! Seriously, you're one of the only people I've run into that doesn't go for the mirror-opposites thing (which as I've watched ANH is kind of o_O). Even before they came up with the surprise twins thing, I think Luke and Leia's relationship was always framed as one of affinity, while they each had the OMG HOW CAN YOU NOT GET THIS? clash with Han. (Okay, and the STOP SHOOTING THINGS WE NEED A PLAN clash, ha.)
I just kind of figured it's part of the fantastic-ness, that in the GFFA traits really can be passed down en masse regardless of upbringing? As TV Tropes says, it's In The Blood. But we only really see it with the Skywalkers, so it could definitely be something weird about their blood specifically.
Ah, Yoda with a lightsaber actually bothers me more than Palpatine with one -- because while it's superfluous and pointless (IMO) for Palpatine, Yoda fighting with one seems to be against everything that he was about. Luke wouldn't even know how to use his if not for Obi-Wan. And, I mean, you can say that he found enlightenment in the swamp and came to regret his previous militarism etc etc, but -- ack, it just seemed wrong.
I... there's a part of me that wants Padme to be the one who's ambivalent and it's Anakin's wholehearted squee when she tells him that makes her keep the pregnancy?
Ooh, that would have been interesting! I didn't think of that, though I did think it would have been interesting if Padmé (the politician) was the one pushing the relationship while Anakin (the monk) was reluctant to break his vows after ten years' dedication. But yeah, I think it would have fit the overall arc a little better. And yeah, Padmé's death by despair would make more sense that way. (In cracktheory land, it's simply that she's mortal and carrying one half-divine child would sap quite enough of her will.)
Re: the children -- I think that could work for the Jedi; he doesn't seem to distinguish between the kids and the adults. But with the Tuskens, he very definitely talks about "the women and the children" as separate from the men, which makes me think he does lump them together as a helpless group.
I can totally see Palpatine using the Jedi for propaganda, though. I had the sort of vague idea that Anakin figured they were better off dying quickly than being left to whatever fate Palpatine had designed for them, or at least told him that he did.
Empress Amidala with Vader as her badass enforcer/adoring husband is one of my favorite things ever at all.
ME TOO. Seriously, I'm all flappy-hands because I love this idea and so often it's Emperor Skywalker/Vader with Padmé as his consort. Technically, even in hex (not that it isn't wonderful!). And honestly, I don't think Vader ever wanted to be the chief administrator of the government -- he wanted someone wise and charismatic and peace-making to do that, and for him to enforce the imperial will.
In light of the PT, anyway, I think that's the offer he was making to Padmé -- to serve her in the same capacity he did the Emperor (though with more sexytiemz and less homicidal rages) and then to Luke (with more hyper-protectiveness). He phrased it rather badly, of course.
There really is a sad dearth of Empress Amidala fics, honestly. And I can see so many ways it could have happened. And actually, I think it's much more probable than Anakin himself becoming Supreme Ruler of Everything. Padmé would be super-creepy too, because she's like Leia in that respect -- she'd have to believe she was right all the way. (While I think Anakin and Luke are willing to do things they realize are wrong in pursuit of a higher goal, and I suspect would stay with Padmé or Leia to the end, even if they hated themselves all the while.)
I was kind of 'whatevs' about doctor!Padmé -- if she weren't a politician, I suspect she'd be a human/sentient rights lawyer of some kind, or something like that. But I loved the schism in the Order and the new one and a;kdfja;djkf;akdfa;dkjf
Now that I think about it, Revenge!Leia is over two years older than Luke, so she'd have been five. She probably remembers him. Vaguely and maybe not by name, but ... ;_;
I think Revenge!Bail liked Anakin personally, but their worldviews were very different for that reason -- Bail was an aristocrat and a politician, and Anakin was an ex-slave, secret Jedi, and soldier (and constitutionally opposed to being deferential to anybody, even the prince he ostensibly served) and seemed rather hard and abrasive to him . And I always imagine Anakin as a storyteller, and I suspect he didn't take, ah, that much care to customize his stories to his audience (which only made him more kickass to little Leia, of course, who always looked forward to his visits for just that reason).
Obi-Wan: yeah, that's why he'd be a tragic hero. Because there were so many reasons why he failed, and some of them are sympathetic. But then again LEAVING HIM TO BURN ALIVE OMG (will never get over this, seriously). But even before that, he seemed a rather -- bad teacher anyway? Like, not in an OMFG WHAT DID YOU JUST DO NO way, but just "wow, you know what is the worst possible way to deal with a student who is (1) immensely gifted, (2) from a traumatically awful background, and (3) in the throes of adolescent angst? PUBLIC HUMILIATION, THAT'S WHAT."
Honestly, I don't think Anakin would have been vulnerable to Palpatine's encouragement if he'd, I don't know, been able to get it somewhere else. (Qui-Gon, for all his flaws, would probably have been a much better role model -- someone who could show him that it's possible to be a Jedi without being an orthodox Jedi -- even that you can do some really morally ambiguous things without heading straight into Sith Lord territory.)
well, I thank you for pushing me to unpack it
Aha, any time! And yeah, there's definitely that dichotomy between attachment/compassionate detachment -- which is interesting for wrt ROTJ, where Obi-Wan and Yoda are all "you must confront/kill your father for the good of the galaxy" and Luke is "...no." And generally Luke is very attached and I'd argue it works out for the best that he tries to balance his (perfectly valid) attachments with the serenity and non-aggression and patience and so on.
But he has to walk a pretty narrow line, I think, and when he falls off it's pretty nasty. But the problem isn't that he loves his sister so much, and not at all in approved Jedi fashion -- I mean, not impersonally. It's the, y'know, MAIM KILL DESTROY thing.
And the sickness in the Force is that people are adhering rigidly to one or the other and rejecting the opposing paradigm.
Right! Maybe more of an order-chaos thing within the Force, with the Jedi leaning so far towards order that they're growing distant from the Force and stagnating. But Palpatine's UNLIMITED POWAHHH! isn't any better. Since the entirety of the Force is generated by the galaxy, it seems reasonable to me that some kind of colossal imbalance like that is what generates the Dark Side. (So I think the old Jedi Order was basically like the Omnian church in Small Gods, more about the dogma and structure than the Force itself, which is what put it out of whack. And of course that was based on Catholicism so it all winds back.)
epic teal deer are epic!
Yay! Seriously, you're one of the only people I've run into that doesn't go for the mirror-opposites thing (which as I've watched ANH is kind of o_O). Even before they came up with the surprise twins thing, I think Luke and Leia's relationship was always framed as one of affinity, while they each had the OMG HOW CAN YOU NOT GET THIS? clash with Han. (Okay, and the STOP SHOOTING THINGS WE NEED A PLAN clash, ha.)
I just kind of figured it's part of the fantastic-ness, that in the GFFA traits really can be passed down en masse regardless of upbringing? As TV Tropes says, it's In The Blood. But we only really see it with the Skywalkers, so it could definitely be something weird about their blood specifically.
Ah, Yoda with a lightsaber actually bothers me more than Palpatine with one -- because while it's superfluous and pointless (IMO) for Palpatine, Yoda fighting with one seems to be against everything that he was about. Luke wouldn't even know how to use his if not for Obi-Wan. And, I mean, you can say that he found enlightenment in the swamp and came to regret his previous militarism etc etc, but -- ack, it just seemed wrong.
I... there's a part of me that wants Padme to be the one who's ambivalent and it's Anakin's wholehearted squee when she tells him that makes her keep the pregnancy?
Ooh, that would have been interesting! I didn't think of that, though I did think it would have been interesting if Padmé (the politician) was the one pushing the relationship while Anakin (the monk) was reluctant to break his vows after ten years' dedication. But yeah, I think it would have fit the overall arc a little better. And yeah, Padmé's death by despair would make more sense that way. (In cracktheory land, it's simply that she's mortal and carrying one half-divine child would sap quite enough of her will.)
Re: the children -- I think that could work for the Jedi; he doesn't seem to distinguish between the kids and the adults. But with the Tuskens, he very definitely talks about "the women and the children" as separate from the men, which makes me think he does lump them together as a helpless group.
I can totally see Palpatine using the Jedi for propaganda, though. I had the sort of vague idea that Anakin figured they were better off dying quickly than being left to whatever fate Palpatine had designed for them, or at least told him that he did.
Empress Amidala with Vader as her badass enforcer/adoring husband is one of my favorite things ever at all.
ME TOO. Seriously, I'm all flappy-hands because I love this idea and so often it's Emperor Skywalker/Vader with Padmé as his consort. Technically, even in hex (not that it isn't wonderful!). And honestly, I don't think Vader ever wanted to be the chief administrator of the government -- he wanted someone wise and charismatic and peace-making to do that, and for him to enforce the imperial will.
In light of the PT, anyway, I think that's the offer he was making to Padmé -- to serve her in the same capacity he did the Emperor (though with more sexytiemz and less homicidal rages) and then to Luke (with more hyper-protectiveness). He phrased it rather badly, of course.
There really is a sad dearth of Empress Amidala fics, honestly. And I can see so many ways it could have happened. And actually, I think it's much more probable than Anakin himself becoming Supreme Ruler of Everything. Padmé would be super-creepy too, because she's like Leia in that respect -- she'd have to believe she was right all the way. (While I think Anakin and Luke are willing to do things they realize are wrong in pursuit of a higher goal, and I suspect would stay with Padmé or Leia to the end, even if they hated themselves all the while.)
I was kind of 'whatevs' about doctor!Padmé -- if she weren't a politician, I suspect she'd be a human/sentient rights lawyer of some kind, or something like that. But I loved the schism in the Order and the new one and a;kdfja;djkf;akdfa;dkjf
The drabble is available here! FLAILY MCFLAIL
"Uncle Anakin!"
Now that I think about it, Revenge!Leia is over two years older than Luke, so she'd have been five. She probably remembers him. Vaguely and maybe not by name, but ... ;_;
I think Revenge!Bail liked Anakin personally, but their worldviews were very different for that reason -- Bail was an aristocrat and a politician, and Anakin was an ex-slave, secret Jedi, and soldier (and constitutionally opposed to being deferential to anybody, even the prince he ostensibly served) and seemed rather hard and abrasive to him . And I always imagine Anakin as a storyteller, and I suspect he didn't take, ah, that much care to customize his stories to his audience (which only made him more kickass to little Leia, of course, who always looked forward to his visits for just that reason).
Obi-Wan: yeah, that's why he'd be a tragic hero. Because there were so many reasons why he failed, and some of them are sympathetic. But then again LEAVING HIM TO BURN ALIVE OMG (will never get over this, seriously). But even before that, he seemed a rather -- bad teacher anyway? Like, not in an OMFG WHAT DID YOU JUST DO NO way, but just "wow, you know what is the worst possible way to deal with a student who is (1) immensely gifted, (2) from a traumatically awful background, and (3) in the throes of adolescent angst? PUBLIC HUMILIATION, THAT'S WHAT."
Honestly, I don't think Anakin would have been vulnerable to Palpatine's encouragement if he'd, I don't know, been able to get it somewhere else. (Qui-Gon, for all his flaws, would probably have been a much better role model -- someone who could show him that it's possible to be a Jedi without being an orthodox Jedi -- even that you can do some really morally ambiguous things without heading straight into Sith Lord territory.)
well, I thank you for pushing me to unpack it
Aha, any time! And yeah, there's definitely that dichotomy between attachment/compassionate detachment -- which is interesting for wrt ROTJ, where Obi-Wan and Yoda are all "you must confront/kill your father for the good of the galaxy" and Luke is "...no." And generally Luke is very attached and I'd argue it works out for the best that he tries to balance his (perfectly valid) attachments with the serenity and non-aggression and patience and so on.
But he has to walk a pretty narrow line, I think, and when he falls off it's pretty nasty. But the problem isn't that he loves his sister so much, and not at all in approved Jedi fashion -- I mean, not impersonally. It's the, y'know, MAIM KILL DESTROY thing.
And the sickness in the Force is that people are adhering rigidly to one or the other and rejecting the opposing paradigm.
Right! Maybe more of an order-chaos thing within the Force, with the Jedi leaning so far towards order that they're growing distant from the Force and stagnating. But Palpatine's UNLIMITED POWAHHH! isn't any better. Since the entirety of the Force is generated by the galaxy, it seems reasonable to me that some kind of colossal imbalance like that is what generates the Dark Side. (So I think the old Jedi Order was basically like the Omnian church in Small Gods, more about the dogma and structure than the Force itself, which is what put it out of whack. And of course that was based on Catholicism so it all winds back.)