anghraine: vader's pyre; text: redemption (anakin [vader's pyre])
[personal profile] anghraine
"Well, to me Vader wasn't redeemed either!"

It doesn't matter if Vader is redeemed "to you."

It. does. not. matter. 

If you don't find Vader's redemption convincing, fine. If you don't find it satisfying, fine. If you don't find it well-developed, fine. If it doesn't fit into your moral vision, fine.

Disliking an element is not the same as denying it exists. Vader was redeemed in ROTJ. It happened. That's what his death scene is about. That's what the smiling glowy blue ghost is about. Dislike Vader's redemption all you want, but you cannot reasonably deny that it occurred.

Moreover, translating "I don't personally find Vader's redemption convincing" into "Kylo is unlikely to be given a redemption arc, and if he does, it will be bad" is just baffling. "I don't like a thing that happened in canon, therefore it's improbable that the canon will do that thing" = ???????????

Whether Ben claws his way to redemption or becomes the cackling one-dimensional villain of Kylo antis' dreams, this is a shitty, shitty argument.

on 2016-12-20 01:46 am (UTC)
sathari: Forceghost!Anakin (Anakin's life is made of second chances)
Posted by [personal profile] sathari
....wait, WHAT?

I mean. Okay. I have managed to successfully resign myself to the existence of even the most virulent of my bbdarling Kylo|Ben's hatedom. And I really try to stay away from anything that smacks of thinking that other people are interrogating the text from the wrong goddamn perspective, especially in a juggernaut megafauna of a fandom like Star Wars.

But, holy fuck, the fact that there are people who "don't think Vader|Anakin was redeemed?" I'm sorry that they're WRONG. Like WRONG THINGS. And also that they have MISSED THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF THE FIRST SIX FUCKING MOVIES (and possibly the last three, depending on what Rey and Kylo's arcs with each other and individually end up being). Because Anakin fucking Skywalker's fucking redemption was entirely the fucking point and the endgame and the victory conditions and the EVERYTHING. And that is a hill on which I will die. I can resign myself woefully about Ben|Kylo if I have to even though I love him bestest, but his granddaddy? Nuh-uh.

(Also, your choice of music is cracking me up here, because yes, that is a serious break of reality.)

on 2016-12-21 09:39 pm (UTC)
kaoriva: (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] kaoriva
PREACH IT!

Honestly, I think it has a lot to do that people doesn't has any friggin' clue on what redemption really means (can't blame them either, after all lots of writers had mishandled the concept thinking it means exonerating the villain of it's crime or easily forgive them) and thus they confuse redemption with atonement or forgiveness when it isn't. While I can understand some people may not have liked how Anakin's redemption was handled, the point is, IT HAPPENED. It was established on canon, as if happy Force Ghost Anakin wasn't enough for them...then I don't see what :V. Don't get me started when people say "Anakin did the same thing on ROTJ that he did on ROTS: trying to save someone he loves" and it's like: NO, ROTJ ANAKIN ISN'T ROTS ANAKIN!!! HIS LOVE FOR LUKE IS DIFFERENT FROM HIS LOVE FOR PADMÉ!

I also don't get why people are so against of Ben having a redemption arc? (Is amusing to read those posts from Rey Skywalker stans, considering that the core of the Skywalker family story was how family love was able to redeem the villain.) He's Leia's son, and he's 'being teared apart', no mention the creepiness that involved his branwashing (child grooming anyone?), do you really expect him to be the Final Boss? When SNOKE IS THERE????? :V. Sometimes I feel like they don't really want redemption because 1) According to their discourse, redemption equals to perpetuate abuse to victims (?????) and 2) They want to spite on Reylos and prove how Rey is the only worthy Skywalker (completely missing the point of the climax of ROTJ). It's....frustrating.

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anghraine: from the 2005 p&p: darcy standing at a piano while georgiana plays it (Default)
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