anghraine

sulfin-evend said:

I love your take on Gondor. What do you make of Boromir's quote in the council of Elrond paraphrasing "those who shelter behind us give us much praise but little help". I presume he is talking about other Gondorians. And the Stewards are often referred to as Lords of Minas Tirth or lord of the city.

What does this mean for how Gondor and its provinces view themselves and how its armies function. Are the Princes of Dol Amroth minting their own coin? Do the lords of Morthond present their daughters at the Stewards court? Are all the lords related to each other in a tangle of blood and marriage ties or do they keep to their home fiefs? It could be envisioned so many ways I am curious to read your perspective.

I replied:

Thanks!

I’ve always taken the opposite reading of Boromir’s line—that he’s talking about the peoples of Middle-earth sheltering behind Gondor generally, and this is why (if I’m remembering correctly) the others at the council go out of their way to point out that it’s not just Gondor that’s protecting the people of Middle-earth.

That said, Tolkien described the Princes of Dol Amroth as almost independent, but not quite; they’re “tributary princes” who contribute … something … to Gondor as a state. So while it might not look exactly like taxation as we’d understand it and could refer to things other than money, I do think it suggests some degree of cohesion, if even the Princes of Dol Amroth (definitely the most powerful and independent of the regional nobles) have to contribute to the whole.

We do see that the fiefs have a lot of authority when it comes to what troops they raise and where they send them. They only sent 1/10th of the forces at their command to help defend Minas Tirith because they were so worried about their own people, and seem to have been entirely free to make that call (and the people of Minas Tirith are disappointed but not enraged). So there’s still quite a bit of regional power in the military sense, at least. But Tolkien also said that a Dúnadan king or Ruling Steward was a fairly absolute ruler in other ways (esp dealing with interpretation of law), so it may be that the lords’ authority is particularly pronounced in military matters and more limited in others.

I do imagine that there would be a lot of intermarriage between the Dúnadan noble families, given that there are only so many of them. While Gondorians have less hang-ups about ~purity than in the Kinstrife days, I think it’s still something people are conscious of, as with Éowyn’s joke that Faramir’s people will wonder why he didn’t choose a woman “of the race of Númenor” to be his wife (she doesn’t seem to think her ¼ Númenórean ancestry will count for Gondorians).

IMO it’s entirely probable that the Stewards and Princes of Dol Amroth have intermarried multiple times, say—not with first cousins (I think that taboo became pretty non-negotiable post-Akallabêth), but more distant connections. Perhaps Imrahil is recognizable as part-Elvish to Legolas despite the generational distance from Mithrellas because Imrahil’s actually descended from her many times over. Etc.

[ETA 5/24/2024: sulfin-evend did respond to this, but given that they acknowledged being "contrary" in this interaction and that they defended Elrond's profoundly racist characterization of modern Gondor, I didn't feel inclined to reply again.]

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Truly trivial complaints:

My birthday is coming up (the ides of March!!) and it’s a Significant Age, so people are like … you need to make a list so we have some idea of what to give you for the Significant Birthday!

Which is fair, but these days, the things I want are like … “my longtime best friend to live in the PNW again” and “my prelims to be over” and “a book cover for my perpetually unfinished novel” and “Amazon to do well by Númenor” and “a sudden desire to eat vegetables.”

I mean, there are plenty of things that occur to me in passing, but when it comes down to making a list, they all flee my mind and … ???

Tagged: #i know there are things other than money that i want #i just can't think of most of them #and the ones i can think of are prohibitively expensive so i wouldn't actually ask #hmm #hmmmmm #gw2 costumes? i'm not playing at the moment but i love them and am feeling like going back #but it seems a kind of trivial thing #i've thought one of those genetic tests would be fun but a) they're expensive and b) i know exactly where my ancestors are from #seriously though if i could pick any actually-possible thing it /would/ be money for art commissions #not just the novel ... like althea and logan or fíriel and éowyn or lucy and vader or the aasimar au or my d&d warlock ororor #this is what comes of having art ideas but no ability lol #but i can't really ask the people in my life for that #uhhhh #i don't want to read anything rn so the old reliable of books/bookstore gift cards is kind of out #cooler dice? i don't know!!

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An anon asked:

Hi there, Elizabeth, I loved your post about the height calculations. I remember reading that Tolkien once described Éowyn as "a stern Amazon woman". Just how tall is 'Amazonian woman' height in your eyes?

I replied:

Heh, thanks! I’ve talked about it enough times that I’m not 100% sure which one you’re talking about (but they’re all pretty much the same, anyway).

If I’m not mistaken, Tolkien used “Amazon” to mean a woman who is a warrior by vocation on multiple occasions. IIRC he describes Haleth’s female bodyguard as Amazons, referring to their identity as female warriors rather than their physical size. There’s a letter where he says that Éowyn is not really an Amazon, but rather, capable of great heroism in a crisis like many brave women. So again, he uses the term in reference to inclination rather than size.

Personally, I tend to go back to LOTR and UT for Éowyn’s height: she’s described as tall on multiple occasions, but is also shorter than the Riders in general, who are typically shorter than Gondorians, and Faramir has to stoop down to kiss her forehead. I imagine that she’s about 5′9″, though some variation in either direction is possible.

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This anon said:

thanks for answering my question about faramir :) i also had a similar follow up q if you didnt mind: what do you think drove eowyn's attraction to faramir? its a common criticism that it seems like a sudden about face for her character, especially in light of her prior attraction to aragorn & how she turns from warfare to peace... but again, imo a near death experience and the loss of someone close to her is as good a cause as any

I replied:

You’re welcome!

I think it’s somewhat fair to criticize the abruptness of Éowyn’s shift in terms of how it’s presented (rather than the literal time scale, which is less important in the circumstances IMO). We see Faramir and Éowyn briefly interact, then they have these conversations we don’t see, and when we see them again, they’re friends/he’s fully in love with her. I think that if we saw more of this offscreen development of their relationship, and perhaps some grounding for the peace/healing/gardening turn beyond the symbolic, there’d be less criticism of how abrupt things are (still some, but less).

Their story is tangential to the wider narrative, in fairness, and I think it’s generally quite beautiful as written, just a little rushed structurally.

Setting that aside, though, there’s something about the shift from Éowyn/Aragorn to Éowyn/Faramir that I think gets a bit overlooked—

—and it’s that Faramir is quite a bit like Aragorn.

It’s not that he’s a second-rate replacement for Aragorn, to head that off right away. But he does possess the qualities that Éowyn genuinely finds appealing in Aragorn; he’s very tall, a great warrior, a charismatic leader, stern but capable of lightness, thoughtful, intelligent, learned, bold when necessary but self-controlled, and is both human and Elvish/wizardly in his air, beliefs, and abilities (and this list is not exhaustive!).

However, part of Éowyn’s attraction to Aragorn also springs from a mix of immaturity and misery. Tolkien remarked that the disparity between Aragorn’s actual age (80s) and appearance (only middle-aged) makes his impression on her all the more powerful. For this very reason, though, Tolkien decided the pairing didn’t work—he’s too old for Éowyn, and the impression he leaves on her leads to infatuation/idolization rather than mature romantic love.

On top of that, Éowyn’s situation in Meduseld is inexpressibly nightmarish and and in Aragorn, she sees a path out of Rohan that would lift her ‘up’ above her suffering and shame. Once there’s no chance of that, she goes seeking death—not truly because of ‘love’ for Aragorn, but because she’s been so trapped and can’t see any other way out that coheres with her ideals for her house and for herself. It’s significant that she ultimately tells Faramir that she no longer desires to be a queen—that was a significant part of Aragorn’s attraction for her.

And the thing is that the qualities that made her infatuated but not really in love with Aragorn are the things that are mostly not there with Faramir. Tolkien explicitly says that, while Faramir has a ‘high’ air, it’s not as high or remote as Aragorn’s can be. Rather, it’s more immediate and constant. Faramir isn’t old or overwhelming; he’s quietly impressive in a way she respects without being swept off her feet into infatuation. He doesn’t represent a way out; he’s not going to rule Gondor for much longer and has no idea what his future will be, yet she’s drawn to his gentleness and dignity anyway. They’re friends. They talk about things, they bond in these incredibly difficult moments when she finds herself drawing close to him. It’s not a relationship she’s built up in her head; it’s all real.

Even though this is all happening quickly in calendar time, I think it’s quite gradual in the emotional sense, as Éowyn goes from respect (and, I think, attraction) to friendship to falling in love without quite understanding what’s going on, to finally understanding what’s actually going on in her head and heart, and seeing a way to live that isn’t about escape or glory, but—living. I think that her newfound value for life and her subconscious love for Faramir have been building through all their interactions, and in the end, come naturally together in this flash of realization.

Tagged: #rambling a lot but this is def how i feel about it generally #her transition is mostly framed as war -> peace #which is certainly there #but i think it's also very much from imaginary -> real

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An anon asked:

forgive me if you've answered this, but why do you think faramir was able to go from the way we saw him in ttt & early rotk (including seemingly having some prejudices against the rohirrim) to him suddenly being softer (& falling in love w/ a rohir) once in the houses of healing? it always seemed a bit of a jump to me & occurred so fast (although i guess having a near death experience is as good a catalyst as any) & id love to hear your thoughts on it (if you have any & want to of course!)

I replied:

Hmm, it’s an interesting question!

I will say that while I’ve seen the “Faramir is wrong and unfair about the Rohirrim in TTT” thing going around, I think that take pretty actively rejects Tolkien’s values and themes. I don’t think Tolkien remotely intended Faramir’s arc to involve coming around to respect the valorization of war and glory in Rohan, and increasingly in Gondor. He never does and he never will. If anything, it’s the reverse; Faramir’s reservations about the prioritization of martial prowess in the modern societies around him are Tolkien’s reservations, and Éowyn’s adoption of his ethos / at least partial rejection of Rohan’s is a conversion to a more mature and right way of thinking about these things in Tolkien’s treatment of it.

I mean, it’s fine for people to be uncomfortable with that (there’s a degree to which I am myself). But I think that people sometimes ignore that Faramir is the character most like Tolkien, and part of his function is to deliver Tolkien’s views within the story and influence other characters towards the values that Tolkien held. So that’s part of what’s going on.

Jumping back in-story, though:

I think the main issue is that in TTT, Faramir is acting as a commander among his men in a very tense situation, dealing with people he believes might have betrayed his brother to his death, and who certainly know more than they’re saying in any case (brief detour to the meta level: the ambiguity over what Faramir’s really like and what he’ll do in TTT also helps maintain tension in some very talky scenes).

Meanwhile, in early ROTK, he’s still acting as a commander, but with his own leader, whom he disagrees with about both his previous actions and their current tactics. Denethor is also his father, of course, and Faramir’s conduct there is influenced by their messy and painful mixture of love and opposition, but Tolkien notes in the letters that another major factor in how Faramir relates to Denethor is that Faramir views himself as a Númenórean before the last Númenórean head of state. This is a big deal for him.

And then he falls in battle, and when he wakes up, Denethor is dead and Faramir is the Steward of Gondor. Even though he still has someone he’s going to relate to in that Númenórean-to-Númenórean-lord way (Aragorn), it’s not the complex, concentrated thing it was with Denethor, nor the high-octane intensity of his situation in TTT. There’s no Ring, no soldiers, no dubious captives, no authority to answer to. He can simply act as he sees fit. Faramir with Éowyn is, I think, Faramir at his most natural, without these incredible pressures on him. He can afford to be softer, gentle, and compassionate, vulnerable in some ways, confident in others.

It’s more headcanon, but I also think that … yes, losing his family is freeing in some ways, but it’s also horrible, obviously. And I think part of what’s going on with him is that he’s dealing with loss, first with Boromir and then Denethor, and with the latter, that loss happened with everything unresolved, and he’s got to know there are things people aren’t telling him about it. I’ve talked about it before, but I do think there’s a lot going on in his head at that point, and he’s the sort of person whose grief makes him more sympathetic to other people’s. So I think that’s part of what’s going on, too.

And then after all of that, he just falls like a ton of bricks for this incredible woman. I don’t think he’d ever have minded that Éowyn is Rohirren—IMO his TTT remark that “we love them” is foreshadowing for this—but if he did at some point, he’s well beyond giving a single fuck about it by then. As we see with the very public kiss, of course.

So that’s pretty much where I stand on it all!

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chestnut_pod left an intriguing comment on my post here in terms of racial purity/elitism in regard to Gondor c. LOTR and the characterization of contemporary Gondor by other characters, most glaringly Elrond. I started to reply more concisely, but the rant grew, so I'm just posting it here:

I always struggle with the reality that much of what Elrond says about Gondor at the Council is objectively wrong as well as repugnant, but the narrative doesn't really frame any of it as incorrect or morally dubious or a reflection on his character at all (despite the semi-corrections made by Faramir later, which somewhat ameliorates this, but only somewhat). In fact, the person who is framed as suspect in the Council interactions is Boromir for being offended and "rudely" outspoken about it (both on behalf of Gondor and Rohan) in addition to being ambivalent (not even especially negative! just unsure!) about the practical significance of Aragorn's pure royal blood.

Elrond also glorifies Gondor's former imperial power through comparison with Númenor's. His regret over Gondor's decay is tied to ideas of racial impurity (which in Gondor is a direct consequence of Númenórean and Gondorian imperialism, and which in any case is a bizarre characterization choice for him specifically) and to Gondor's inability to sustain its empire. I feel like all these sentiments are treated in the text as pretty understandable and sympathetic and right-thinking, even if Elrond turns out to be mistaken about some specific things.

Basically, it feels like the general perspective is that the Stewards were wise to move towards a more diverse and integrated Gondorian society, to recruit outsiders, to do what was necessary to keep Gondor standing and opposing Sauron where multiple purer and more insular factions failed. They were wise to relinquish imperial holdings they didn't have the power or inclination to control. But this stuff also seems to be treated as a regrettable necessity. All this is tragic and everyone who cares is kind of sad about it. As a result, Elrond's melancholy over modern Gondor, while mistaken on specific points, seems somewhat validated by the narrative framework.

For instance, in the description of the (100% heroic) people of Lebennin, we can see that element of reservation about modern Gondor with regard to race and racial mixing:

the most part of the people of Gondor lived in the seven circles of the City, or in the high vales of the mountain-borders, in Lossarnach, or further south in fair Lebennin with its five swift streams. There dwelt a hardy folk between the mountains and the sea. They were reckoned men of Gondor, yet their blood was mingled, and there were short and swarthy folk among them whose sires came more from the forgotten men who housed in the shadow of the hills in the Dark Years ere the coming of the kings. But beyond, in the great fief of Belfalas, dwelt Prince Imrahil in his castle of Dol Amroth by the sea, and he was of high blood, and his folk also, tall men and proud with sea-grey eyes.

And I think Aragorn and his royal purebloodedness are deeply bound up in this. To an extent, this framework also validates the Northern Dúnedain's prioritization of Númenórean purity above all else. The negative extreme of their position is mediated through Gondor (in the Kinstrife) and then (~sadly but necessarily) becomes less of a priority over time. Thus Gondor survives through "hard" choices like "sustaining the population through interracial marriage" and "including local indigenous people as full citizens." So there's still a substantial polity left for the ultimate result of the Northern Dúnedain's blood purity—Aragorn—to rule over and "restore". But the Northern Dúnedain themselves don't have to compromise their valuation of purity for this to occur, and in fact, the purity they so carefully maintained in the royal line only makes it all the more natural for Aragorn to rule over the racially and culturally "impure" Gondorians and to forge their nation into a new, kinder and gentler(...) empire.

Further tangent: It's unsurprising that Tolkien struggled a bit with figuring out who would be suitable for Aragorn to marry and thus whose blood would mingle with his into the next generation. If I recall correctly, Arwen was created pretty specifically to be Aragorn's queen and to reinforce his bloodline (this was done in a fairly evocative way, but still). I do get why Tolkien felt Éowyn was too young etc for Aragorn, and I prefer Faramir/Éowyn by a mile, but I am not convinced that Éowyn's "lesser" racial status (in-world) was not also part of the calculus.

Anyway, I guess Aragorn's rule is the intended compromise between Faramir's explicit "a king would be nice but not dominating other people" and the various awful imperial legacies at play. But it feels to me like the suggestion here is that the problem is doing empire wrong rather than doing empire at all.

I do think that Tolkien had pretty messy feelings about this and you can see him trying to complicate various aspects in some of his post-LOTR writings. LOTR frames early Númenórean imperialism as uncomplicated benevolence towards, I think he said, "lesser" races of men; over a very long time, their dominance in Middle-earth becomes corrupted and nightmarish. But by "The Mariner's Wife," it's evident that their involvement was morally compromised and horrific from day 1, yet Tolkien also tries to complicate that with Aldarion's mixed motives (partly it's straightforward empire-building for its own sake, but partly he's trying to prepare for a very real threat and Ancalimë's refusal to continue his policies in Middle-earth is not exactly bad but certainly not good). Tolkien even argues in Peoples of Middle-earth that the High Men/Middle Men/Wild (or Dark!) Men distinction in LOTR is entirely about cultural affinity for "The West" rather than race as such (I doubt this was quite the intention in LOTR itself), and moreover adds that plenty of people had pretty good reasons for cultural opposition to "The West" because of devastation previously wreaked by Western powers like Númenor. (The subtext is not subtle.)

But I think there's always this partly-aesthetic, partly just racist appeal of the "good" empire ruled by a(n ideally pureblooded & superior) racial elite for him, alongside his ever-increasing skepticism about what this entails and what it can lead to and if it will inevitably be corrupted and how that interacts with (in his view) the intrinsically fallen nature of humanity. So it's a mess and there are these points of reservation and skepticism and outright criticism of things like racism and empire and the interrelationship between them embedded within his work that can give us some room to maneuver, I guess? But the overarching trends voiced by characters like Elrond and Aragorn are still really present and unavoidable.

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I talked a few days ago, under f-lock, about some painful RL experiences around being perceived as deeply boring and incapable of feeling pain (or feeling most emotions, really). And I wanted to make an addendum to that, one that I don’t think really needs the f-lock.

I’ve made many complaints about various fandoms + multifandom spaces and trends over the years, and I still consider most of those complaints valid. Nevertheless, fandom has typically been a much less bleak environment for me.

If someone in fandom finds me boring, they usually do not tell me so, or treat me in a way that makes this apparent. They simply don’t interact with me. And people who do follow me or interact with me don’t do it because of my family’s involvement, or because I’m a package deal with more interesting/attractive/charismatic friends, or because of some other figure in my meatspace life at all. In fandom, none of that matters. At least, it hasn't for me.

Even the followers who don’t particularly care about me as a person are following me for my own sake in some capacity, rather than for the sake of someone else. Sure, some of these will leave if I get super into something they find dull, or stop posting or whatnot, but their interest in my opinions about the thing they’re into is still about my opinions of that thing, or how I express my opinions, or something about my online persona.

And there are also people who don’t share my preoccupation with a current fixation, or don’t find my take on it interesting, and are thus kind of bored, but they like me personally enough to stick around, anyway. This doesn’t usually trigger my “oh no I’m being boring” issues, because if they’re invested enough to stay, despite disinterest in my current thing, they’re evidently still engaged at some level with me.

Beyond that, people in fandom don’t typically lecture me on my general demeanor. It’s happened, but not often. In fact, while fellow fans sometimes express respect for my—let’s say, often rather severe manner of presenting myself and my opinions, they don’t generally act like it is required of me to be that way or that it somehow precludes a capacity to feel. We’re all in fandom because we feel things!

And that’s been very powerful for me. I wasn’t diagnosed as autistic until I was well into my 20s, while I’ve been directly or indirectly excluded or distanced from many RL social circles ever since I was a child. I’ve certainly been treated as if I and the things I care about are objectively dull and emotionally unengaging.

But throughout my entire adult life, there has always been one glaring exception to this. There really was a social sphere in which my experience of others and of myself could be different. There was fandom.

For all of online fandom’s many, many flaws, this has been part of my experience of it from even before I was an adult—in fact, from the time that I made my first post. At the time, I was extremely shy and anxious, so I lurked a lot, and was very worried about breaking some rule somewhere if I actually said anything on the big scary Internet. But I had feelings. I was in high school and I had such feelings.

Many of these were Pride and Prejudice feelings. In high school, I started collecting copies of P&P just so I could read the introductions/editorial content and see what other people thought about it, since nobody I knew IRL cared about it the way I did. This was both my first step into academia proper and a sort of proto-fannish activity. But my Austen feelings were not actually the ones that propelled me into breaking my self-imposed Internet silence and detachment from online communities. A lot of Austen fandom didn’t really seem like my people. I was also into Harry Potter, but HP fandom similarly did not seem like my people.

Actually, speaking of boring other people, I’m going to be really self-indulgent and rewind even further for THE FULL SAGA of what brought me into fandom.

( Read more... )

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An anon said (wrt this):

The Eowyn/Faramir shipper in me wants to suggest that Faramir keeps his horse but shows up at the same time as Boromir because he lingers at Meduseld, fascinated by Eowyn, but I feel like Faramir is too dutiful for that lol I do love the potential this AU has for that relationship - as much as I love the Houses of Healing, it would be interesting to see how they would bond when not immediately recovering from trauma...

I replied:

Haha, I was just writing up an addition that’s like … okay, how do Faramir and Éowyn interact? They’d meet when he first passed through—does he fall as rapidly as in canon? What does Éowyn think of him? What does he pick up from Wormtongue? If he does still fall like a ton of bricks for her, that’d be a hell of a situation to leave behind. I mean, it is anyway, but there are just so many questions that arise from that.

I tend to agree that he wouldn’t linger; he’d give a warning, but he’s got divine commands to follow. Still, I think it could definitely affect how their relationship winds out. It’d be more protracted in some ways, and there’s a big question of whether she still gets infatuated with Aragorn with Faramir there. If Faramir and Éowyn do fall in love in the TTT timeline, her pain would be different but perhaps all the more present when it’s real love at work.

Alternately, it’s possible that Faramir is initially overshadowed by Aragorn, and he doesn’t end up in the Houses of Healing because he’s on the Paths of the Dead, and following that arc to get back to Gondor. Then he would be off to Mordor (maybe that’s when she realizes her true feelings), or maybe she realizes after the victory when she’s supposed to return to Rohan … there are a lot of ways it could play out.

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“I don’t like Faramir with long hair” is a really odd thing to get on a reblog. Like … take it up with Tolkien.

Tagged: #éowyn is considerably shorter and yet their hair mingles in the breeze. qed #also tumblr keeps reccing quite nice art to me ... where it is not possible for their hair to mingle #like you get canon-compliant art of them once in a blue moon—and then people complain that it's TOO canon-compliant? #i mean fandom's going to be fandom but STILL

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2020 fic writing post!

2020 was not my most productive year, but apart from the general state of 2020, I had a lot to do for my PhD and sleeping problems, so … /shrug. Anyway, this year—

- I got inspired by my “eh” feelings about TROS to outline a big chunk of my f!Luke series, and after (I think) four years of no updates, wrote some eighteen and a half chapters on The Jedi and the Sith Lord in something like six weeks. It’s now 67k.

- I updated my very niche Guild Wars 2 fic, pro patria, a kind of fragmented AU in which the “Missing Sister” option to say that the PC/Deborah are proud Ascalonians has a major effect on the PC’s character and story. I got Althea through a bunch of Ebonhawke/Fields of Ruin stuff, which was 50% of the motivation for writing it at all. It’s now at 89k.

- I finally finished the gift of men, the Eldarion/Faramir-and-Éowyn’s-daughter fic that has been rolling around my brain/Google Drive for years. It’s only a little over 1k, but I was really glad to get it finished and posted.

- I was overpowered with Ascalon/fuck the Searing feelings while playing the original Guild Wars and wrote a fic about the Prophecies PC’s last day (creatively called the last day) before the Searing. It’s also just over 1k and almost nobody read it, but it was really for me, so that’s okay.

- I updated tolerably well acquainted, my canon-compliant book-only P&P fic about how Elizabeth falls in love with Darcy from Pemberley onwards. Lydia just ran off with Wickham and Elizabeth reunited with Jane; I wrote about half of another chapter, but didn’t finish it. The fic as a whole is now 27k, which is kind of astounding to me tbh.

- I’d always thought of my Éowyn-meets-f!Faramir fic, we also are daughters of the great, as a one-shot, but got inspired by their canon scenes to take it further … and then got waylaid by Merry feelings? I don’t know. I also wrote about half of another chapter of this one before exams struck, so that’s partly done. I’d really like to get to the hair mingling scene! Someday. It’s 4800 words.

- I haven’t posted much of it (just this) or named it, but I started a fic about Darcy’s family (canonical and head-canonical) reacting to his engagement to Elizabeth/Elizabeth herself. It’s part of the tolerably well acquainted continuity, I think, and a kind of fun experiment with different voices. It’s 1500 words so far.

- I started a fic about Faramir’s birth and early childhood, but it stalled partway through dealing with tiny Faramir’s first dream of Númenor. I might get back to it someday. It’s 1300 words.

- I also brainstormed a Star Wars/Dungeons and Dragons fusion where Anakin is an aasimar (as are Luke and Leia), but the composite setting drifted far enough from either that it became an original fic in a universe powered by the blessings/curses of the gods. It follows a sorceress of the god of the Void who takes on the care of a troubled demigoddess. I wrote a ton of background material, but only 1200 words of actual fic.

- After only cutting things out and fixing the gaps for years, I wrote two full chapters of my original fantasy novel; I’ve decided to take out a big chunk of one of them, but even so, it’s very satisfying, and (after a lot of cuts) brought the whole thing to 72k.

And I think that’s everything!

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dragoness_e responded to this post:

I think that Faramir knew the whole time: he was delirious with fever when Denethor laid him on the pyre, not unconscious. The knowledge filtered through fever delirium that his father tried to kill him probably worsened the Nazgul-induced despair that Aragorn had to pull him out of. Remember one of the things Aragorn said contributed to his critical condition? “Grief over his father’s mood”. I think Faramir just gave up after Denethor tried to kill him, and that’s why his condition was so bad that only Aragorn of the line of Luthien could heal him. By the time he’s up and meeting Eowyn, he’s already dealt with this, or he wouldn’t be up and about.

I replied:

Hmm, I tend to disagree. I don’t think we really have much of an idea of what Faramir was aware of while he was delirious or what he remembered later. I’ve always taken the reference to grief for Denethor’s mood to refer to the causes of Faramir’s sickness generally, not the final phase of it (the direct context is explaining how Faramir became so sick in the first place, IIRC?).

And unless I’m misremembering, Gandalf is the one who says—after Aragorn’s healing—that Faramir shouldn’t be told the full story of what happened until after he’s fully recovered, even though he’ll have to find out that Denethor is dead. So Gandalf at least thinks that Faramir missed or isn’t going to retain the details.

Éowyn is also up and about while plainly not having dealt with her issues, so I don’t think we can assume that Faramir is A-OK about nearly being murdered by his father just because he’s moving around and personable. I mean, maybe he completely got over it in a few days, but I don’t think we have anything like certain evidence of it.

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moggett responded to this post:

“Could you be happy being married to the second most powerful man in the world?”

I replied:

lmao, right? just an ordinary man inviting her to live an ordinary life! she’ll just have to settle for being wife to the regent of Gondor rather than the king of Gondor :P

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Occasionally, I see people defending Éowyn’s swerve from Aragorn to Faramir as a choice of ordinary life rather than dreams of glory, and I get it, and I wouldn’t completely deny that it’s there in some ways, but also, Faramir as representative of the ordinary is kind of hilarious to me?

Faramir: let’s just go grow gardens together thataways :)

*earlier*

Faramir: all this reminds me of the looming darkness when God sunk my ancestral homeland. It haunts my dreams.

Tagged: #*still earlier* gollum's mind is kind of unclear to my vision but i can see that he's lying about a specific location #also he's committed murder #no i'm not going to explain why it physically hurts him to lie to me #sam: you don't remind me of elves so much as ... like. wizards #faramir: thanks! it's that old magic ancestral homeland :) #ajkdjk i do love that he's this nearly peak númenórean type going around with his 24/7 zone of truth and then goes on about flowers #it's the most tolkien(tm) thing

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I genuinely hadn't remembered that I'd already talked about the peculiar subordination of Faramir's arc to other characters' once Denethor is dead—I made a post about it not long ago, with no memory of saying in the previous crosspost:

it does seem like the Denethor-Faramir tension just dies with Denethor and that Faramir’s role as a character is thereafter subordinated to Aragorn’s and Éowyn’s, in different ways.

Something that's both intriguing and frustrating about Tolkien's treatment of Faramir in the book is the extent to which the narrative structure around him is very "woobie" in some ways while also utterly denying his ... um, woobiedom in others.

( Read more... )

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An anon said:

Ok I need to understand when Faramir has time to process his emotions after his healing...what are your head canons on this? I get why narratively we need to move through the stuff with Eowyn, Aragorn becoming king, etc, and actually in general it seems we rarely get a deep look at Faramir's innermost life but like...how can he not be seriously depressed after everything that happened?

I replied:

I do honestly wonder about this. We know that the full story of the pyre etc was supposed to be kept secret from him until he’s completely healed, which is … I mean, it’s understandable that that would be the order given, but it’s going to be incredibly difficult to keep things from him, even things in which he personally is not concerned.

So my first question is whether he’s actually accepting what he’s being told at that point and not asking further questions. He seems to have his shit together emotionally/intellectually when he meets Éowyn, at which point the secrecy would still be ongoing. Is Faramir, of all people, really not noticing that something significant is being kept from him? If he has noticed (which seems overwhelmingly probable), is he not curious/concerned about what it is? Does he have no idea what it is, or has he some educated guesses that he’s either processing or purposefully not thinking about? Or does he pretty much know already? And how does this interact with his behavior around Éowyn at this time?

It’s—at the absolute least, he would know that Denethor suddenly died and that he’s now the Steward of Gondor. We have no idea what he thinks or feels about this, you’re right. Things were so painfully unresolved between them and then just … ended. Perhaps he’ll hear about how upset Denethor was and know that he cared, at least, but we don’t know if that would help. Boromir is dead and Denethor is dead and Imrahil is off to Mordor and his own future is completely up in the air, and it just seems like this kind of awful situation before he finds out that his father tried to burn them both alive. And he doesn’t give a whisper of a hint of that!

My second question is when, exactly, does he hear the full story of what happened? It seems like it would be before his engagement to Éowyn, but there’s no sign of any kind of reaction. The book is preoccupied with other things at that point, so it’s not a major flaw, but it does seem like the Denethor-Faramir tension just dies with Denethor and that Faramir’s role as a character is thereafter subordinated to Aragorn’s and Éowyn’s, in different ways.

But I’m curious what he felt when he did hear, whether it affirmed what he already thought or was worse than he’d imagined or was a total shock. And I’m especially curious if he ever betrayed any vulnerability about it to Éowyn, or if it’s easier to be sympathetic to others’ vulnerabilities than his own, or if he didn’t want to make her sorrow and suffering about him, or if he just … couldn’t deal, and buried it for the time being. Or maybe it did come up, or he at least said something, and we just don’t see it—which would be odd, but it’s possible.

This has more questions than answers, sorry! But while I’ve thought about it a lot, and way back in the day read various scenarios for it a lot, I’ve never quite settled it in my own mind. At the moment, though, I’m inclined to think that his awareness of what happened would became clearer and clearer over time through both deduction and his natural abilities, and he’d have put together at least a basic idea of what happened before anyone guessed he had, and that he revealed little if any of this to anyone.

I don’t want to downplay his real sympathy and love for Éowyn, but I do think his personal sorrow probably reinforced them. Likely it was in some ways easier for him to focus on her and her troubles than on himself, particularly as I think he’s someone very used to self-denial.

The text definitely focuses on Faramir’s impact on Éowyn much more than the reverse, but I do like to think that she had one. It seems possible to me that her friendship in that time might have gone a really long way, even if he couldn’t yet bring himself to explain why.

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Current Music: Who Wants To Live Forever (Queen)

I reblogged a link to Catherine Chmiel's illustration of Éowyn; her site is no longer maintained, but the Wayback Machine has a working link here.

Tagged: #i was combing through some more and saw this again! #such a good éowyn #definitely one of the closest to my initial impression of her

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I was looking for a post and instead ran over a really old one where I pointed out that when Éowyn is 75, Faramir will be the same age that Aragorn is in LOTR, and live 33 more years.

Thanks, past self.

Tagged: #don't think it's likely that she has éomer's lifespan either #:\ #also just thinking about it ... everyone thought denethor was prematurely aged bc his people and family don't age like that #faramir will probably neither look nor feel old until he's at least 100 #idk i'm kind of thinking back to andreth and aegnor and like - obvs he's not literally immortal #(he == faramir) #but there's that concern with /aging/ and not just with literal death #in the athrabeth that the fourth age couples shrug off #when éowyn asks if faramir would have his people ask if he couldn't have chosen a númenórean i do kind of wonder if any of this is in her head #in any case his answer is 'fuck it i don't care' #which is such a nice contrast with aegnor lol #honestly ... i loved him from ttt but also #this is part of it too! #he's got to know what's going to happen #but some things matter more than borrowing grief!!! #also #him being so númenórean and yet turning his back on the blood purity shit without a moment's reservation is just ... #<3 #okay this ended up at a more optimistic note than it started on

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I reblogged this illustration of Faramir and Éowyn by cycas on Tumblr and added:

#A SUDDEN CANON DEPICTION APPEARS #mingling hair!!!! height difference!!! i LIVE! #also this is beautiful op #kasdfjkl;fdas i've finally seen a faramir with longer hair than éowyn... i'm just #!!!!!!!!!!!

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I kind of love that Éowyn has no idea that Faramir kept his seat while being chased by multiple Ringwraiths and then turned back to help his men, and probably doesn’t know much of anything else about him either, but almost immediately upon meeting him decides he must be a warrior equal-to-or-better-than any of the Rohirrim.

(I do imagine that someone mentioned this event to her at some point and she’s just … yeah, thought so.)

Tagged: #i do really enjoy that of all the potential ... skills of war that he might have #he's above all else an amazing /horseman/ #given who he marries and her kneejerk 'hmm he seems very gentle but i'm getting kickass vibes' response #in my more schmaltzy moments i like just imagining them riding out together or racing each other or whatnot

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I reblogged a post from marcelgerard about drunkenly calling the Witch-king of Angmar "the bitch-king of Angmar."

Tagged: #éowyn ghost-wrote this

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Entries tagged with ch: éowyn

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Your regularly scheduled rant about Gondor, imperialism, Aragorn etc

A fandom retrospective (1/3)

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More on Faramir!

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