Anghraine

I managed to integrate a lot of tangents into last night's infodump on Númenórean pregnancy because it turned up so many interesting sort-of related things, but there were STILL MORE details that I couldn't work in but was delighted in various ways by. A list:

1. Tolkien struggled to make the Maeglin story work with the developmental scheme he was trying to mathematically pin down for Elves, given that Maeglin's history requires him to be born much later than most of the other Elves of his generation. Tolkien concluded that Maeglin had to be an adult, but that he would have been very young in Elvish terms, and this is part of the reason Idril was so unsettled by his interest in her. He wasn't a literal child but he was kind of a kid from Idril's POV.

2. SPEAKING of Maeglin's history, another idea Tolkien came up with to deal with the Maeglin problem was the idea that Maeglin actually isn't that much younger, but instead, Aredhel was either persuaded or trapped by Eöl before ever reaching Aman! In this case, the "Dark Elf" descriptor for Eöl would have no racial subtext whatsoever—Eöl would not be Avari or Sindarin at all, but another Noldo who refused to finish the journey to Valinor and thus never saw the light of the Two Trees. The implication of Noldorin Exiles calling him "Dark Elf" is less "Sinda" and more "loser."

3. Tolkien makes a couple of errors in trying to figure out the math. Some of those mistakes are the math, or at least numerical (Arwen's birth year gave him a lot of trouble, more on this further down), but he also does things like mixing up Elenwë and Anairë at one point. IDK, there's so much hagiography in Tolkien discourse that it's kind of endearing to see him making ordinary writerly mistakes.

( Read more... )

An anon asked:

Hi there, Elizabeth, I loved your post about the height calculations. I remember reading that Tolkien once described Éowyn as "a stern Amazon woman". Just how tall is 'Amazonian woman' height in your eyes?

I replied:

Heh, thanks! I’ve talked about it enough times that I’m not 100% sure which one you’re talking about (but they’re all pretty much the same, anyway).

If I’m not mistaken, Tolkien used “Amazon” to mean a woman who is a warrior by vocation on multiple occasions. IIRC he describes Haleth’s female bodyguard as Amazons, referring to their identity as female warriors rather than their physical size. There’s a letter where he says that Éowyn is not really an Amazon, but rather, capable of great heroism in a crisis like many brave women. So again, he uses the term in reference to inclination rather than size.

Personally, I tend to go back to LOTR and UT for Éowyn’s height: she’s described as tall on multiple occasions, but is also shorter than the Riders in general, who are typically shorter than Gondorians, and Faramir has to stoop down to kiss her forehead. I imagine that she’s about 5′9″, though some variation in either direction is possible.

chestnut_pod left an intriguing comment on my post here in terms of racial purity/elitism in regard to Gondor c. LOTR and the characterization of contemporary Gondor by other characters, most glaringly Elrond. I started to reply more concisely, but the rant grew, so I'm just posting it here:

I always struggle with the reality that much of what Elrond says about Gondor at the Council is objectively wrong as well as repugnant, but the narrative doesn't really frame any of it as incorrect or morally dubious or a reflection on his character at all (despite the semi-corrections made by Faramir later, which somewhat ameliorates this, but only somewhat). In fact, the person who is framed as suspect in the Council interactions is Boromir for being offended and "rudely" outspoken about it (both on behalf of Gondor and Rohan) in addition to being ambivalent (not even especially negative! just unsure!) about the practical significance of Aragorn's pure royal blood.

Elrond also glorifies Gondor's former imperial power through comparison with Númenor's. His regret over Gondor's decay is tied to ideas of racial impurity (which in Gondor is a direct consequence of Númenórean and Gondorian imperialism, and which in any case is a bizarre characterization choice for him specifically) and to Gondor's inability to sustain its empire. I feel like all these sentiments are treated in the text as pretty understandable and sympathetic and right-thinking, even if Elrond turns out to be mistaken about some specific things.

Basically, it feels like the general perspective is that the Stewards were wise to move towards a more diverse and integrated Gondorian society, to recruit outsiders, to do what was necessary to keep Gondor standing and opposing Sauron where multiple purer and more insular factions failed. They were wise to relinquish imperial holdings they didn't have the power or inclination to control. But this stuff also seems to be treated as a regrettable necessity. All this is tragic and everyone who cares is kind of sad about it. As a result, Elrond's melancholy over modern Gondor, while mistaken on specific points, seems somewhat validated by the narrative framework.

For instance, in the description of the (100% heroic) people of Lebennin, we can see that element of reservation about modern Gondor with regard to race and racial mixing:


And I think Aragorn and his royal purebloodedness are deeply bound up in this. To an extent, this framework also validates the Northern Dúnedain's prioritization of Númenórean purity above all else. The negative extreme of their position is mediated through Gondor (in the Kinstrife) and then (~sadly but necessarily) becomes less of a priority over time. Thus Gondor survives through "hard" choices like "sustaining the population through interracial marriage" and "including local indigenous people as full citizens." So there's still a substantial polity left for the ultimate result of the Northern Dúnedain's blood purity—Aragorn—to rule over and "restore". But the Northern Dúnedain themselves don't have to compromise their valuation of purity for this to occur, and in fact, the purity they so carefully maintained in the royal line only makes it all the more natural for Aragorn to rule over the racially and culturally "impure" Gondorians and to forge their nation into a new, kinder and gentler(...) empire.

Further tangent: It's unsurprising that Tolkien struggled a bit with figuring out who would be suitable for Aragorn to marry and thus whose blood would mingle with his into the next generation. If I recall correctly, Arwen was created pretty specifically to be Aragorn's queen and to reinforce his bloodline (this was done in a fairly evocative way, but still). I do get why Tolkien felt Éowyn was too young etc for Aragorn, and I prefer Faramir/Éowyn by a mile, but I am not convinced that Éowyn's "lesser" racial status (in-world) was not also part of the calculus.

Anyway, I guess Aragorn's rule is the intended compromise between Faramir's explicit "a king would be nice but not dominating other people" and the various awful imperial legacies at play. But it feels to me like the suggestion here is that the problem is doing empire wrong rather than doing empire at all.

I do think that Tolkien had pretty messy feelings about this and you can see him trying to complicate various aspects in some of his post-LOTR writings. LOTR frames early Númenórean imperialism as uncomplicated benevolence towards, I think he said, "lesser" races of men; over a very long time, their dominance in Middle-earth becomes corrupted and nightmarish. But by "The Mariner's Wife," it's evident that their involvement was morally compromised and horrific from day 1, yet Tolkien also tries to complicate that with Aldarion's mixed motives (partly it's straightforward empire-building for its own sake, but partly he's trying to prepare for a very real threat and Ancalimë's refusal to continue his policies in Middle-earth is not exactly bad but certainly not good). Tolkien even argues in Peoples of Middle-earth that the High Men/Middle Men/Wild (or Dark!) Men distinction in LOTR is entirely about cultural affinity for "The West" rather than race as such (I doubt this was quite the intention in LOTR itself), and moreover adds that plenty of people had pretty good reasons for cultural opposition to "The West" because of devastation previously wreaked by Western powers like Númenor. (The subtext is not subtle.)

But I think there's always this partly-aesthetic, partly just racist appeal of the "good" empire ruled by a(n ideally pureblooded & superior) racial elite for him, alongside his ever-increasing skepticism about what this entails and what it can lead to and if it will inevitably be corrupted and how that interacts with (in his view) the intrinsically fallen nature of humanity. So it's a mess and there are these points of reservation and skepticism and outright criticism of things like racism and empire and the interrelationship between them embedded within his work that can give us some room to maneuver, I guess? But the overarching trends voiced by characters like Elrond and Aragorn are still really present and unavoidable.

I’ve always thought it interesting that “The Mariner’s Wife” places such an emphasis on Erendis looking strange (in a beautiful way, but strange) to other people on Númenor. Aldarion thinks she’s an Elf (from Tol Eressëa, I think?) until he gets close up, and we hear later that other Númenóreans are struck by her appearance, because it is “of a kind seldom seen in Númenor; for Beregar [Erendis’s father] came of the House of Bëor.”

So it’s pretty much wholly attributed to her being Bëorian. It turns out that her whole region was predominantly settled by Bëorians, so it seems to be a regional thing.

The physical difference between Hadorians and Bëorians is usually presented in terms of hair color, but … it’s hard for me to see the other Númenóreans as so agog at someone simply having dark hair. To me it sounds like there’s something more, idk, substantial in the difference of appearance—something which, to go by Aldarion’s initial reaction to her, is at least somewhat reminiscent of the Elves who visit Númenor (presumably Eldar). Of course, Bëorians looking somewhat (or in some cases, very much) like Eldar is not new, but it adds to the association there.

This is doubly interesting because the Faithful primarily came from the same region and thus, it’s very possible that the Númenórean ‘look’ among their descendants would be more like Erendis than what was typical of most Númenóreans.

I’m not sure what Erendis does look like tbh, but I do think her look—and by extension, Bëorians’ and most of the Faithful’s—would be pretty distinctively different. 

Tagged: #i imagine that the transition to númenóreans /generally/ looking like elves is still ongoing at this point #but once it really takes hold most númenóreans look like vanyar and faithful like noldor #which is honestly kind of hilarious to me given the uhhhh cultural dynamics there #but what that difference /looks/ like beyond coloring is still up for grabs

I reblogged this quote about Denethor, and added:

#i really appreciate that this essay exists #so i can just therapeutically reblog this every time someone goes after him

moggett at Tumblr said:

Does Eomer have Morwen’s height? Didn’t the appendix say he took after his Rohan side (as opposed to Eowyn’s “grace and height”).

I replied:

In a later note in UT, Tolkien says:

The Rohirrim were generally shorter, for in their far-off ancestry they had been mingled with men of broader and heavier build. Éomer was said to have been tall, of like height with Aragorn; but he with other descendants of King Thengel were taller than the norm of Rohan, deriving this characteristic (together in some cases with darker hair) from Morwen, Thengel’s wife, a lady of Gondor of high Númenórean descent.