Tumblr crosspost (29 January 2025)

[anghraine]

In response to this post, venndaai responded:

I'm so so glad you liked TOS! I love it and it's so fun when a friend loves something you love despite all its flaws :D

I replied:

<3333 Thank you so much! I'm also thrilled that I ended up loving it so much, flaws notwithstanding. HONESTLY I was thinking of messaging you specifically about looking for "Requiem for Methuselah" fic and discovering a few desperate attempts to cast the final scene as fodder for het Spock somehow, because I was like "Venn would understand the depth of LMAO NOPE that I am feeling right now"

[ETA 4/28/2025: the context of my reply is that Venn and I have talked multiple times over the many years of our friendship about their general preference for m/m over m/f and mine for m/f over m/m, though both of us like other configurations, esp f/f.]

bailesu also responded:

Turnabout Intruder always makes me bonkers because the whole 'no women in high command' thing makes no sense when women are seen in the chain of command! And it never gets referenced again. But i love TOS too.

I replied on Jan 30th:

ngl I don't remember any women being given command of a starship in TOS, though there's one among the Romulans. Of course there were no more episodes of TOS because it got cancelled, so it's hard to say if it would have gone anywhere or not (certainly I would not trust TOS to handle it well, lmao). Personally I would prefer that legacy franchises engage with in-world misogyny rather than handwaving it away, but... well, that's me.

sqbr responded on Jan 30th:

Are you going to watch the movies? They're actually what got me into Star Trek but since I was 14 I make no claims as to objective quality.

I replied:

Yes!! We're planning on watching TMP this weekend :D

sqbr responded:

Nice! Curious to hear your thoughts, though I have only seen 2-6 myself

Comments

[sixbeforelunch]

Not sure how much TOS behind the scenes you've gotten into but from what I've read, Roddenberry was going through a divorce and when he said no women in command, he meant it, 'cause he was pissed and bitter at his ex-wife. So. Yeah.

FWIW, most people hand wave Lester's comments as a symptom of her instability and a way for her to rationalize not getting a command rather than face up to her career disappointment.

[anghraine]

I did read about that (well after this conversation, I think), and yeah, nothing about the episode as written led me to think Janice was just making it up or confused or something, though I can see why that would be a more comfortable retcon. But especially given that, when she insists the Starfleet glass ceiling isn't fair, Kirk actually agrees with her: "No, it isn't."

I'm actually more bothered by the earlier episode where they drag in LaSalle, I think, to take temporary command because Kirk, Spock, and Scotty are all unavailable—it was going to be Uhura, but Roddenberry threw a vicious temper tantrum about women ever being in command in any circumstances. But misogyny and heteronormativity are so blatantly interwoven throughout the narratives and world building of TOS, regardless—despite the show trying to envision a world that's better about it than the writers' own IRL—that the idea that Starfleet might still have institutional gender baggage they haven't wholly moved past doesn't bother me all that much. The existence of institutionalized sexism that the male hero agrees is fucked up is the least of Roddenberry's gender-related offenses IMO.

I suppose it might be issueficcy, but personally (as someone whose ST fannishness is overwhelmingly concentrated on TOS), I find more to chew on in imagining how Starfleet and the Federation move past recognizable cultural baggage than in denying it was ever there. I know for other people, the quasi-utopianism makes it a lot more objectionable, though.