anghraine: kirk standing in front of a pile of books in "court martial," his face slightly turned and pleased; text: "stack of books with legs" (the description of him from the pilot) (kirk [stack of books])
I tragically can't find the post again, but a few days ago, I ran over one of the most perfect AOS Kirk vs TOS Kirk summations I've seen on Tumblr, re: Pride. I'm extemporizing because I don't remember the phrasing at all, but the overall tenor was:

Okay, the difference between them is not that one Kirk is bi and the other isn't, they are both extremely bi. But if AOS Kirk was at Pride, he'd be wearing a slutty crop top while in the actual parade, and goes out drinking to the local gay bar after it's over. TOS Kirk supportively goes to the parade, gets a headache an hour in, and leaves to watch an all-male Shakespeare in the Park production of Hamlet.

And truly, I'm not sure I've read a better analysis to date :P
anghraine: Uhura and Chapel kiss in the background, ignored by Spock (spock [oblivious])
Continuing from J's and my re-watch (for me, after a good 20 years) of The Motion Picture:

So, uh, well, I finished it, though my overall feeling is “what the fuck did I just see?” I feel like this conversation J and I had afterwards sort of illustrates our general mood:

J: Even by Star Trek standards, this was incredibly horny in a very 70s way. I’m pretty sure the entire female reproductive system was cosmically represented.

me: RIGHT? So many labia and yonic tunnels and barely metaphorical orgasms and uhhh

J: Many clits also.

me: SO MANY.

J: Though I think the Voyager craft was the, you know, main one.

me: …maybe Voyager was the real clit all along?

Despite this, Spock’s navigation of the horny cosmic feminine is the gayest shit ever, including him icily referring to the various uhhh openings in the tunnels as “orifices” and one of the shippiest scenes with Kirk he’s ever had (a high bar for them!!).

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Icons! :D

Jun. 18th, 2025 09:56 am
anghraine: kirk disguised as mirror kirk in a glittery gold vest with his fingers loosely touching his mouth; text: fabulous (kirk [queer])
Despite stumbling into passionately shipping the original Star Trek ship of ultimate destiny that spawned fandom as we know it, I've found my interests and preferences a bit at odds with general ST fandom, which naturally has meant that I had to make my own silly TOS icons reflecting what I'm personally into. I promised[personal profile] elperian that I'd get around to posting them here—they're up for grabs for anyone who wants them, and I'm sick and miserable for asthma reasons, so it's something that doesn't take a lot of brain power.

1. You know the infamous scene from S3 where the terribly written alien spawns a terribly written Kirk meltdown only for it to become one of the most incredible and certainly gayest scenes in all of TOS ft. Kirk and Spock's shadows leaning in and eventually overlapping? I definitely needed that one:



2. Perhaps the most purely surprising and purely delightful revelation from the TOS watch was that Uhura doesn't do much more with Spock than hit on him a few times in some early episodes, but she and Kirk have a really charming platonic friendship where they're only ever on a last name/rank basis, yet are genuinely close and are persistently shown to care very deeply about each other. And they're also absolute joys when their subtle background rapport as mutually smooth-talking, stylish, high-strung but controlled professionals gets to flourish into what I can only describe as bisexual guile diva chaos gremlin energy. There are multiple occasions when one of them is finally starting to crumble under the pressure and the other is an absolute rock until the crisis passes (which one takes which role actually varies), but I have a real soft spot for Kirk reminding Uhura of how important and valuable she is in "Mirror, Mirror," so that's the scene I chose for my first Kirk-Uhura brotp icon:



3. The great thing about "Amok Time" is—well, there are many great things, but you know how you sometimes watch something, and you just end up kind of hating everyone and siding with a meteor destroying all concerned? "Amok Time" is the opposite of that. It's one of few episodes of anything where I'm pretty much Team Everyone, and this very much includes one of my absolute favorite Vulcans of all time and one of my favorite women in TOS, my girl T'Pring:



Yes, she did all that, and good for her, too. Spock himself talks about the prospect of having sex with her with about as much enthusiasm as a death sentence and T'Pring doesn't want to be his property/consort, so win/win. Maybe Vulcan should have better divorce laws if they don't want fantastically stylish women scheming for personal autonomy!!

4. There was no way in hell I wasn't going to have an icon for my beloved episode of episodes, "The Conscience of the King" (a fantastically acted and structured episode in general, obviously a great Kirk episode specifically, with an intense and intriguing villain in Kodos/Karidian, but also in true TOS fashion about the then-highly topical subject matter of what to do with elderly Nazis escaped eugenicist war criminals, an emphasis on Spock immediately recognizing the strangeness of Kirk's behavior and quickly grasping the weight of genocide for the survivors where McCoy desperately wants to filter Kirk's actions through familiar, relatable, pedestrian motives right up to the end, all interlaced with early modern revenge tragedy aka my academic specialization and other great love—truly, no episode could be more perfect for me specifically). So I went with an icon for one of my absolute favorite scenes from the whole damn thing, the magnificent confrontation between Kirk and Kodos:



"You're an actor now. What were you twenty years ago?"
"Younger, captain. Much younger."

"So was I. But I remember."


5. I really wanted a gay Spock icon that was not necessarily a Kirk/Spock icon (he is mostly Kirksexual, sure, but he's also so aggressively Not Into Women on so many occasions that I felt it deserved its own separate icon). And so many of those scenes don't really get across the level of bitchy indifference without the movement of his head tilt or shrug or whatnot... but I found one that I felt truly encapsulated the particular gay energy of Spock:



6. While I was at it, I couldn't resist the other supremely bitchy gay Spock scene (this is when Kirk invites him to join a party of dudes going to a hot lady cafe and Spock very slowly tilts his head and projects intensely passive-aggressive confusion at the idea that he could possibly find this appealing):



7. There's a post that periodically goes around about Shatner's wildly erratic positions on Kirk's sexuality over the last 50-odd years that's like... dude, you're the one who kept looking at Nimoy like you wanted to eat him, you're the one who played Kirk as the queerest dude in space, you did this, Bill, and—yeah, it's not wrong. One of the other big surprises from watching all of TOS was realizing that the intense queer vibes of K/S has every bit as much to do with Shatner's performance as Nimoy's, along with the framing and writing and so on. No other Kirk actor (and few ST actors period) has even remotely approached the off-the-charts queer energy of the original, and so I made a silly icon about it:



8. I wanted a K/S icon that captured how much of their dynamic is like—

Kirk: I'll admit that part of me seeks the blood of my enemies and every day I choose not to murder
Spock: um, I ... have questions
Kirk: well it's just - LOOK A FLOWER!!!!!!
Spock: Jim please stop sniffing flowers they keep trying to kill you



Truly, no one's doing it like them.

9. One of my other favorite Kirk-Uhura brotp moments is when he casually promotes her to the local racist's position controlling the Enterprise's weapons and navigation in the middle of the Romulan crisis in "Balance of Terror." Kirk and Uhura are visually framed together a lot in that episode and lit very similarly, so I wanted to pair Uhura confidently stepping up in that episode with his affirmation of her importance in "Mirror, Mirror":



10. I had been talking with [personal profile] elperian about the hunt for Kirk icons, and we both hadn't found any that used the much-quoted description of him from the pilot as "a stack of books with legs" and his notoriety at the Academy as the demanding teacher of a course (implied to be a philosophy class) in which cadets would either "think or sink." Despite his more easy-going manner in the present, his conviction that noping out of critical thinking and creativity is not an option, ethically, remains absolutely non-negotiable and central to his worldview in TOS, so I wanted to come up with a "think or sink" icon. However, when I was collecting some screenshots from "Court Martial" for unrelated meta, one of them was so perfect for "stack of books with legs" that I couldn't resist going with that one instead!


anghraine: spock, exploring a verdant planet as part of an away team, watches as kirk unnecessarily smells a flower again (kirk and spock [flower])
I enjoy headcanoning both Kirk and Spock as nonbinary in the same "technically but badly closeted" way that I interpret them as very much bi4gay—but also, as pretty different types of nonbinary. Spock describes himself as both a man and not a man (within the same episode, the iconic "Amok Time"). In many respects, he possesses the most purely unassailable masculinity of anyone in the show (this is a significant plot point in one of the Maximally Gender episodes, "Charlie X"). He wears make-up in the style of female Vulcans like T'Pring and T'Pau more than like how most men wear make-up, while surrounded by people who don't even know the difference, and at the same time, he's not at all uncomfortable with being identified as a man. To describe Spock as a man is incomplete information, not false. His "nonbinariness" consists very specifically of Man and Not-Man, and he tends to be marked by a highly consistent presentation of himself that blends gendered conventions, as suits his unique experience, but also makes him the most supremely masculine figure around when that's an issue at hand—a specific sort of bigender quality with some pretty obvious resonance with his experience as a biracial Vulcan.

Kirk, I think, doesn't consciously consider that he could be anything but a man, and is broadly okay with that, if the range of his gender performance isn't compromised by external pressures. But when he is pressured to occupy some specific gendered role, his resistance seems to go from 0 to 100 very fast. I imagine nb!Kirk as the kind of closeted-even-to-himself nonbinary person who assumes everyone's experience of gender is as tied to performance as his own, and surely, it's just obvious that it's all kind of fake outside of social dynamics, it's just that social dynamics affect people's lives and psychologies, and thus matter (the reality is more complicated, obviously, but it is a not-uncommon perspective among some kinds of nb people still figuring our shit out, cf. Judith Butler—my headcanon is that he's less bigender or multigender than "agender diva who likes to fuck around with conventions around masculinity and femininity and whatever else, but feels little allegiance to any of them as a stable state of being"). I do think that being reduced to a specific, exclusively masculine role by forces outside himself (despite being sometimes useful) pretty evidently grates on him more than the somewhat effeminate roles he sometimes gets steamrollered into (also sometimes useful), but since he's strongly implied to be AMAB, that wouldn't necessarily be unusual (assigned gender often has more baggage for obvious reasons, even if it's not more or less "wrong").

I do tend to think of him as transfem-leaning nonbinary at heart (one of my many quibbles with Tumblr TOS fanon is that I genuinely think Kirk makes 100x more sense as transfem than transmasc, and that his presentation in the peak Kirk Enrichment Enclosure episodes is far closer to femme than butch too when accounting for the limitations of the era), but the cisheteronormativity of the 23rd century is alive and well. The specifics of how he would fully express his actual sense of gender in a less restrictive world don't preoccupy him much as long as he gets to be the diva he was born to be and doesn't feel (gender-wise) like someone is actively clipping his wings. So he's just sometimes going to slip into announcing that gender is an insignificant distraction from the common personhood of all people, if a fun one, before breezing onto picking flowers or throwing himself into the occasional community theatre production or fluttering his eyelashes to escape the third trap of that week.

>_>

Jun. 6th, 2025 09:03 am
anghraine: A female version of Spock from Star Trek made in Star Trek Online; she is slender, with a short bob; she is wearing loose black trousers instead of a miniskirt (s'paak [figure])
So I'm sorting through my many, many notes for the K/S femslash AU jotted down in email drafts and elaborate notes on chronological outlines and grumpy additions to passages where I'm like "actually it needs to happen differently, more like blahblah, especially if I want my version to correspond with this conceptual detail from TOS I really like..."

Between moving across the city, asthma problems, a death in the family, looking for work, etc etc, some notes are hyper-organized and others are all jumbled together with no rhyme or reason. So it can be silly and fun in its own way to impose some kind of order when it's like:

Read more... )
anghraine: vader extending his lightsaber; text: and now for the airing of grievances! (Default)
Characterization poll responses part 2!

The original Tumblr poll got over 500 notes and over 1000 votes, so I can't realistically compile everything, but I did want to include some that I particularly appreciated. I'm organizing them by subject for convenience.

anghraine: t'pring from tos: she is a vulcan woman with dramatic, sparkly silver eyeshadow and dark hair in a tall, elaborate coiffure (t'pring)
In response to this poll about TOS characterization details, [personal profile] elperian said:

all of these options are so great!

I replied:

Thank you! There were some it was painful to leave out (like my girl T'Pring having no other access to divorce, Spock's fluffy dangerous pet as a child, Kirk having a strict No Fraternization policy that applies only to him, etc) but I felt these were the most interesting!

[personal profile] heckofabecca responded (on 1 February):

A++++ for Bones being respectful of privacy! Good doctor job!

I replied (on 2 February):

Yes! There's a profound decency to him a lot of the time (unfortunately not all, but I appreciate when they remember it's essential to his character!).

[personal profile] venndaai responded (on 3 February):

That Uhura/Chapel kiss was so important to teenage me.

I replied (on 6 February):

I was completely blindsided that it happened! Like yeah MEANT to be platonic but...

bladeangelx responded (on 24 April):

Op I literally just finished watching what little girls are made of and cant find the kiss. Is it likely that I found a version with it edited out or did I simply miss out on the correct time stamp?

I replied (on 1 May):

You might have just missed it! Uhura kisses Chapel shortly before Chapel beams down to the planet.

TNG update!

May. 1st, 2025 02:49 pm
anghraine: kirk stands behind an elderly man turned away from him; kirk's manner is severe and almost menacing while the old man (kodos the executioner) looks thoughtful (kirk and kodos)
So, J and I are actually (as of May 1st!) well into season 2 of TNG. I had much stronger memories of TNG than TOS because ... uh, I grew up with TNG re-runs, and had a lot of affection for Picard as a kid, etc. But part of the reason I was so shocked by loving TOS as much as I did was because it felt so different in ambitions and even politics than I remembered from TNG, and especially in structure and focus. I'd heard people talk about the overlooked ensemble quality of TOS or how McCoy gets balanced narrative attention to Kirk and Spock or whatnot, and then I marathoned the whole thing as an adult and was like "...uh, so this is like 70% the Kirk and Spock show, TNG was way more about the ensemble unless I'm completely misremembering." But it had been a long time, so I was curious about how TNG would register as an adult with more information about the production etc.

By and large, I do strongly prefer TOS despite the comfort food quality of TNG, but I am really enjoying parts of TNG. Data is endearing, but in these more infamously flawed first two seasons, a lot of the show is honestly carried by Riker and Troi for me. J and I keep joking about how Picard is so often in his quarters or indulging himself elsewhere that Riker actually runs the ship, and in general we've felt that everyone would be better off if he just was the captain. It's like... okay, so in my PhD program, there was this graduate student organization that helped with a lot of coordination and such, but the actual president of the organization was a bit of a self-indulgent flake. My best friend in the program ended up becoming the vice-president, and did basically all the real work of holding it together and whipping it into a useful shape. Said vice-president is now J's girlfriend, so he has this context, and I keep being like "ah, looks like GSO Vice President Riker is doing the real work AGAIN."

Read more... )
anghraine: kirk and spock stare at each other in a turbolift on the enterprise; their shadows projected on the wall behind them are nearly touching (kirk/spock [turbolift])
Poll #33056 TOS characterization details
This poll is anonymous.
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 7

Which is your favorite character detail from TOS?

View Answers

Kirk used to teach an infamously tough class at the Academy.
2 (28.6%)

Spock is ashamed of his affection for Kirk and guilty about being ashamed.
0 (0.0%)

Technically, Kirk isn't the first white person Uhura kisses; Nurse Chapel is.
0 (0.0%)

Kirk's only stated religious beliefs are that he's a strict monotheist, a god needs compassion, and he particularly rejects Hellenic polytheism.
0 (0.0%)

McCoy avoids revealing Dr. Jones's blindness out of respect for her privacy.
1 (14.3%)

Uhura finds Kirk's voice soothing and hates kissing him for that reason.
0 (0.0%)

The original Gorn were just trying to protect their homes from colonization.
0 (0.0%)

Spock hasn't been on familial terms with Sarek for 18 years by S2.
0 (0.0%)

Sulu and Chekov refuse to fly the Enterprise when given unethical orders.
2 (28.6%)

Kirk was 13 when he survived starvation and genocide.
1 (14.3%)

McCoy marries a high priestess who survives and retains her political authority.
1 (14.3%)

Spock is a firm vegetarian who dislikes meat.
0 (0.0%)


1. Kirk as a notoriously challenging teacher -> "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (S1).
2. Spock's shame over his feelings for Kirk -> "The Naked Time" (S1).
3. The Uhura/Chapel kiss -> "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" (S1).
4. Kirk angrily refusing to convert to Hellenic(/ancient alien) polytheism because he's a firm monotheist -> "Who Mourns for Adonais?" (S2); his insistence that a god needs compassion is from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (S1).
5. McCoy honoring the privacy of the woman of the week's disability -> "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" (S3).
6. Uhura hating kissing Kirk because she's always found his voice so platonically reassuring -> "Plato's Stepchildren" (S3).
7. The Gorn Did Nothing Wrong -> "Arena" (S1).
8. Spock hasn't had a father-son relationship with Sarek for 18 years, or visited his parents in 4 years -> "Journey to Babel" (S2).
9. Sulu and Chekov don't believe in just following orders (and Starfleet regulations allow for this) -> "Turnabout Intruder" (S3).
10. Kirk was a thirteen-year-old genocide survivor -> "The Conscience of the King" (S1); his age is established in both "Shore Leave" (S1) and "The Deadly Years" (S2).
11. McCoy's marriage to Natira, one of the few female authority figures who is capable and noble and survives and is triumphant, gaining full leadership of her people, and Kirk promises to help McCoy visit her periodically -> "For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" (S3).
12. Spock is a firm vegetarian and dislikes meat, which is a clue to how powerfully the ancestral memory effect is working on him ("All Our Yesterdays," S3).

Tagged: #i had to leave some other interesting or fun ones out sadly. like baby spock's sehlat
anghraine: kirk stands behind an elderly man turned away from him; kirk's manner is severe and almost menacing while the old man (kodos the executioner) looks thoughtful (kirk and kodos)


Okay, look, I swear I’m doing other things than this fic. I also wrote original fiction yesterday, and spent time with friends, and I’m going to re-certify my repayment plan today, and you know, anyway, here’s a prequel snippet to the one about femslash Spirk emotions after “Conscience of the King.” This is set earlier, as S'paak hunts down the clues about Kirk’s motives during the plot of the episode.

S’paak had been puzzled in her youth at the tales of her barbaric ancestors—the Vulcan ones, not the human ones. They had been a people of unrestrained passions of all kinds, prone to anger, violence, war, irrational attachments, even to hunting animals that presented no danger to them. They had been willing to incinerate their planet before forgetting a wrong to themselves or their clans. Only later had Vulcans found another path, the path of peace and reason to which she had long committed herself. It felt so natural to her that she often found this history of her people difficult to believe, difficult to even imagine, and yet it was so.

It took her until the first year of the Enterprise’s deep-space expedition to understand.

The inexorable activity of her mind had linked the captain’s uncharacteristic abruptness to the murder of Dr. Leighton. S’paak had not forgotten Kirk’s private inquiries about his professional reputation, and this left her all the more intrigued by the captain’s sudden demotion of a blameless Lieutenant Riley, as well as suspicious of their new guests. It was an easy enough task to order the nearest ship computer to correlate all known data on the individuals she thought concerned—Thomas Leighton, Jessica Kirk, Kevin Riley, Anton Karidian—but less easy to hear the results.

S’paak had not known the details of the starvation of the Tarsus IV colony twenty years earlier, nor of the eugenicist policies of its governor in determining who would receive the remaining rations, nor of the scale of slaughter that had taken place as thousands were marched into converted anti-matter chambers. She had certainly not known that Dr. Leighton, Kevin Riley, and Jessica Kirk—Jess, her friend—were among the witnesses and survivors. In addition, these three were on record as having seen the notoriously reclusive governor with their own eyes.

Nine survivors of the massacre had received that dubious honor. After Leighton’s murder, only two of the nine remained alive, Kirk and Riley. Leighton, older than both, might well have recalled Kodos’s face clearly, and now he lay dead. Riley had been a small boy. Jess, though, had been thirteen. Still a child, but old enough to remember. Old enough to be dangerous to the guilty.

anghraine: A female version of Spock from Star Trek made in Star Trek Online; she is slender, with a short bob; she is wearing loose black trousers instead of a miniskirt (s'paak [figure])
I wrote more femslash K/S, and spent hours more than I had anticipated on it because this section grew in the telling (i.e. it came to encompass multiple episodes’ worth of S'paak restraining both gay longing and seething hatred of certain individuals). So this is just an excerpt from a considerably longer section.

Also, the context of the episode this section draws from merits a massive warning for sexual coercion that is highly relevant to what happens here.

The Scalosians would have trapped the captain for the rest of her life if not for her own ingenuity in conveying information across time, and McCoy’s rapid development of a cure. Of course, he hadn’t known how to get it to Kirk, and had stared when S’paak promptly drank the Scalosian water.

“S’paak, you don’t know what that will do to you!” he exclaimed.

She did not betray herself with an indifferent shrug, but felt the temptation. He knew his field, even if she was loath to depend upon his judgment in many other matters. And they had no other way to reach Kirk. For S’paak, it was an easy risk to take, and within minutes, proved worth it. She quickly found the captain, and was only too willing to formulate a quick plan of attack with her. She would have done more if Jess had asked. Instead, they forced the Scalosians back through the transporter to their own planet, and S’paak handed McCoy’s cure over to Jess. It worked, thankfully; she vanished back into the ordinary flow of time while S’paak repaired the damage to the ship with her usual efficiency.

The silence and emptiness as she repaired consoles were pleasant in some respects; she could not deny that. But her skin crawled enough that when she was done, she hurried to the bridge in a less dignified manner than she would ever have done before others. Without hesitation, she drank down the rest of the antidote.

The other crew members frozen on the bridge began to move, slowly at first, and then at their usual bustling pace, several starting as they noticed her. For once, S’paak could welcome being stared at. She turned to see Captain Kirk smiling slightly at her.

“Commander S’paak,” she said, “my compliments to your repair work and yourself.”

anghraine: t'pring from tos: she is a vulcan woman with dramatic, sparkly silver eyeshadow and dark hair in a tall, elaborate coiffure (t'pring)
[personal profile] venndaai responded to this post:

LOOOOVE THIIIIS. You did my wife T’Pring justice 😍 and I’m obsessed with this dynamic between her and S’paak!!!


I replied:

Thank you!!! I was nervous about writing her POV out of nowhere, but I adored her in "Amok Time" and wanted to do right by her personality and voice in that episode in the AU context. When I thought about what her role would be in the AU, I thought it would be really interesting to focus on how the tense respect between her and Spock manifests when they have more common experience.

zingsthings said (on 31 Jan):

a) OBSESSED with this concept b) THE LAST PARAGRAPH is very rude and very perfect. but ouch


I replied:

Thank you very much! I love that line in TOS and thought that it'd be really interesting to see how Spock's mixture of composure and devastation would look from outside.
anghraine: t'pring from tos: she is a vulcan woman with dramatic, sparkly silver eyeshadow and dark hair in a tall, elaborate coiffure (t'pring)
It’s well past midnight, but I felt like doing another piece of the femslash Spirk AU for WIP Wednesday (surprising no one) and what came out was … T'Pring POV? This is, of course, set in the direct aftermath of S'paak’s pon farr (as sketched out here), but in an AU version of “Amok Time”:

As a girl, T’Pring had harbored an irrational, and thus regrettable, envy of t’sai S’paak. She had resented S’paak’s status as the daughter of Sarek, and her superior performance on certain mathematical examinations given in childhood, especially as S’paak was but half a Vulcan. In a little time, of course, T’Pring overcame such childish emotions, and thirty years later, she regarded S’paak only as the obstacle to her own desires.

The death of the Starfleet captain sufficed well enough for her plans; indeed, she had considered this the most likely eventuality. The body of the captain and the doctor were transported to their ship, and S’paak, clearly rational once more, walked over to speak to T’Pau and Stonn—mainly T’Pau. T’Pring could not hear them from where she stood, but Stonn did not communicate any failures of their plan to her.

Before she could think further on any of it, S’paak strode directly over to T’Pring herself, perhaps due to information received from Stonn or T’Pau, or perhaps no more than her own deductions. It would not take great acuity of observation to recognize T’Pring’s hand in the proceedings, after all: certainly less than S’paak had always possessed.

T’Pring was not afraid. She lifted her head and met S’paak’s eyes, both of them smooth-faced and unflinching. Whatever human qualities S’paak might have inherited from her mother were nowhere in evidence.

“T’Pring,” said S’paak, “I am wondering why you sought my death, or that of my captain.”

anghraine: kirk and uhura from tos are dressed in the glittery horny outfits of their mirror counterparts; kirk gently holds uhura's shoulders while reassuring her of her importance (kirk and uhura [brotp])
In response to this post, [personal profile] venndaai responded:

I'm so so glad you liked TOS! I love it and it's so fun when a friend loves something you love despite all its flaws :D

I replied:

<3333 Thank you so much! I'm also thrilled that I ended up loving it so much, flaws notwithstanding. HONESTLY I was thinking of messaging you specifically about looking for "Requiem for Methuselah" fic and discovering a few desperate attempts to cast the final scene as fodder for het Spock somehow, because I was like "Venn would understand the depth of LMAO NOPE that I am feeling right now"

[ETA 4/28/2025: the context of my reply is that Venn and I have talked multiple times over the many years of our friendship about their general preference for m/m over m/f and mine for m/f over m/m, though both of us like other configurations, esp f/f.]

bailesu also responded:

Turnabout Intruder always makes me bonkers because the whole 'no women in high command' thing makes no sense when women are seen in the chain of command! And it never gets referenced again. But i love TOS too.

I replied on Jan 30th:

ngl I don't remember any women being given command of a starship in TOS, though there's one among the Romulans. Of course there were no more episodes of TOS because it got cancelled, so it's hard to say if it would have gone anywhere or not (certainly I would not trust TOS to handle it well, lmao). Personally I would prefer that legacy franchises engage with in-world misogyny rather than handwaving it away, but... well, that's me.

[personal profile] sqbr responded on Jan 30th:

Are you going to watch the movies? They're actually what got me into Star Trek but since I was 14 I make no claims as to objective quality.

I replied:

Yes!! We're planning on watching TMP this weekend :D

[personal profile] sqbr responded:

Nice! Curious to hear your thoughts, though I have only seen 2-6 myself
anghraine: kirk and spock stare at each other in a turbolift on the enterprise; their shadows projected on the wall behind them are nearly touching (kirk/spock [turbolift])
I finished TOS today :’(

From J’s loathing of the series finale, I thought it would be worse tbh. It is not good, to be clear! Obviously the whole conceit of the episode is intensely misogynistic (and transphobic, though I think that was less intentional). And Janice is so completely identified with Gender Rage while also being so mediocre as a person that her characterization is somewhere between insulting and comically stupid, but with a bit of generosity there are some things I still find intriguing about it.

anghraine: A female version of Kirk from Star Trek made in Star Trek Online; she is a curvy woman wearing the TOS miniskirt in command gold; she has dark blonde hair pulled away from her face (jessica [close])
astarreborn responded to this post:

You should flip some of the women toolike city on the edge of forever, and the ingenue from conscience of the king,

I replied:

I've been thinking about this, because I tend to prefer AUs that take a relatively restricted premise and see where the specific consequences of that premise go rather than adopting a whole bevy of changes, but also I can't really see a way around the implicit homophobia without more changes... hmm. I would probably not switch Edith (that romance is more interesting to me as f/f in that cultural context) but Kodos's child being a son makes a LOT of sense, Charlie X would go really differently with f!Kirk unless Charlie is also a girl...etc. 🤔

astarreborn responded:

You could flip yoeman rand just for the fun changes to the enemy within. On further thought i agree with you on edith.

Is it ok if I come back in a few hours with more thoughts? I don't want to annoy you too much, but I really like this idea


I replied:

No problem! I'm delighted anyone at all is interested :)

anghraine: A female version of Kirk from Star Trek made in Star Trek Online; she is a curvy woman wearing the TOS miniskirt in command gold with knee-high dark boots; she has dark blonde hair and the bridge computers of a Federation starship are glowing behind her (jessica [full])
In response to this post about my particular femslash Kirk/Spock concept, smallblueandloud reblogged with my tags attached and then added (on Jan 23rd):

#goddddddddd i am loving this #LOVE the thought you put into kirk’s name #i can see why deborah was your first choice but i’m excited to see where jessica goes! #the idea of kirk as an odysseus archetype is something i’m really fascinated by and i want to think about that more so

I replied:

Thank you on all fronts!

I actually put even more elaborate thought into Kirk’s name and cut most of the explanation out lol, so I’m glad it works and that you’re enjoying this deeply Anghraine™ dive into ST feelings.
anghraine: kirk and spock stare at each other in a turbolift on the enterprise; their shadows projected on the wall behind them are nearly touching (kirk/spock [turbolift])
Speaking of my coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb perspective on the various obligatory het romance plots in TOS, I’ve been really struck by how many seem dub-con at best. Maybe that’s partly because I’m finishing the third season and it’s especially pronounced there, and it’s also been particularly glaring with Spock in particular (the Kirk dubcon plots tend to be more viscerally horrifying, but he at least gets to consent sometimes).

Spock has a small fraction of the number of romantic (or "romantic") plots that Kirk does, and while I might be misremembering something in the many episodes I’ve seen—

1— “This Side of Paradise”

The premise of this "romance" is that Leila, the softly-lit blonde girl of the episode, was in love with Spock six years earlier, but his issues meant their love could never be, and he rejected any possibility of romance with her. It's not at all clear what past!Spock actually felt about the situation (Leila says "you couldn't give anything of yourself" and he wouldn't even put his arms around her), both because of his general manner when not under the effect of the sex/docility/spore cult pollen, and because her feelings are so much the main driver of both the backstory and the present events.

Early on, lead spore cultist Elias asks Leila if she’d like Spock to join their creepy community. She replies, “There is no choice, Elias. He will stay.” It doesn’t seem like she actually cares about what he’d choose in his right mind, just about using the sex pollen to railroad him into the life she wants with him. This doesn’t mean she was always like that (she herself has been exposed for a long time, though she doesn't change much when the spores lose their hold on her), but her disinterest in his consent to life with her makes this ostensibly sweet romance 100x creepier. Not helped by the sex pollen itself and her avoidance of explanations when Spock is still in his right mind and could decide for himself.

Read more... )
anghraine: kirk and spock stare at each other in a turbolift on the enterprise; their shadows projected on the wall behind them are nearly touching (kirk/spock [turbolift])
In response to this post, yavieriel said:

I don't have particularly strong K/S feelings - TOS Shatner has Dad Vibes too strong for me to overcome - but this has been a delightful journey to watch you take.

I replied:

Interesting, I see that more easily from Nimoy than Shatner, but we all feel the Dad Vibes differently, lol. And thanks, haha—I went from "this is just part of the fabric of the universe of me, I'm not passionate but it just kind of IS to me" to "beating my head against the wall to avoid going insane" so fast it feels like whiplash!

yavieriel said:

Oh that is fascinating, Spock is entirely "hot but unapproachable college prof" to me. I can't even slightly imagine him drinking beer while grilling, or mowing the lawn in cheesy tshirts, or coaching t-ball. Whereas I feel like Kirk would be entirely comfortable with those things, and probably somewhat enthusiastic. My own dad's very stereotypical middle class cishet guy-ness is definitely somewhat performative, but it's not insincere, if that makes sense? Which also matches with Kirk's vibes for me.

I replied:

Ah, I see! My own dad is an extremely reserved and intense programmer from LA with zero interest in the various sportsballs and a great value for reason and debate (and board games that require some amount of tactical thinking), and we've always been conspicuously similar and close. Also Spock continually being on the receiving end of microaggressions is pretty true to the ways my dad has been targeted (as a multiracial Mexican-American man), so Nimoy's Spock feels all the more familiar. That said, I think partly the show sexualizes Kirk so much that I personally find it hard to see him as exactly paternal despite the strong Father To His Crew vibes. But I can see that as a way to read, for instance, Uhura saying she finds it soothing to listen to his voice through the intercom when she's nervous—it could be seen as a shippy thing, but obviously isn't intended that way.
anghraine: kirk and spock stare at each other in a turbolift on the enterprise; their shadows projected on the wall behind them are nearly touching (kirk/spock [turbolift])
So the great chronological-by-airdate TOS watch with my housemates is nearing its end and I’m genuinely kind of sad about it, in much the same way that I was happy but kind of sad about my D&D campaign resolving.

I will say, though, that I’ve been trying not to be One of Those People but I truly hadn’t realized before this TOS household re-watch that Kirk/Spock on the original show was at this level. I didn’t clearly remember the little bits I saw as a kid (I was far more into TNG and Captain Picard as a tiny Anghraine) and so I thought it would be more like the standard action-adventure male friendships that inspire big slash ships, and not god-tier “these guys are truly unhinged about each other.”

I’d seen the various Spock/whomever shippers duking it out among themselves, but from a distance, and just vaguely felt that none of the ship warriors were covering themselves in glory. I hadn’t realized that—I’m sorry, I know I’m becoming the villain here, but I had no idea I’d end up feeling like every Spock ship in TOS vs Kirk/Spock is 100% coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb.

Tagged: #fine. the k/s girlies of yesteryear were entirely justified and spock especially has powerfully relatable closeted gay energy #(kirk does not. kirk's energy is powerfully bisexual)

ETA 4/21/2025: Somewhat relatedly, I was actually looking at how the characters' share of overall dialogue breaks down statistically between TOS and TNG. It turns out that, proportionally speaking, you'd have to combine the line shares of Picard, Data, Riker, and Geordi to reach the share of overall dialogue that Kirk and Spock have in TOS (~73% of all TOS dialogue). And this isn't only because Kirk gets so much of the dialogue (he does get a ton of it, though his share drops sharply over the course of the show; IMO he also gets the bulk of the bad dialogue in the later show, despite some great S3 scenes—he's not carrying so much of the show's bad writing earlier on). But the only TNG character who has a higher proportion of overall dialogue than Spock does in TOS is Picard, and only a few percent more at ~31%. Meanwhile, in TOS, there's a steep drop from Spock's share of lines/screen time to McCoy, who has only 13% of the show's dialogue; the line shares only get slighter from there. Meanwhile, Data and Riker both have slightly higher shares of overall dialogue than McCoy, and Geordi comes pretty close to his share as well. TOS gives a lot of centrality to Kirk and Spock compared to even other ST shows.

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