anghraine: kirk and spock stare at each other in a turbolift on the enterprise; their shadows projected on the wall behind them are nearly touching (kirk/spock [turbolift])
Speaking of my coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb perspective on the various obligatory het romance plots in TOS, I’ve been really struck by how many seem dub-con at best. Maybe that’s partly because I’m finishing the third season and it’s especially pronounced there, and it’s also been particularly glaring with Spock in particular (the Kirk dubcon plots tend to be more viscerally horrifying, but he at least gets to consent sometimes).

Spock has a small fraction of the number of romantic (or "romantic") plots that Kirk does, and while I might be misremembering something in the many episodes I’ve seen—

1— “This Side of Paradise”

The premise of this "romance" is that Leila, the softly-lit blonde girl of the episode, was in love with Spock six years earlier, but his issues meant their love could never be, and he rejected any possibility of romance with her. It's not at all clear what past!Spock actually felt about the situation (Leila says "you couldn't give anything of yourself" and he wouldn't even put his arms around her), both because of his general manner when not under the effect of the sex/docility/spore cult pollen, and because her feelings are so much the main driver of both the backstory and the present events.

Early on, lead spore cultist Elias asks Leila if she’d like Spock to join their creepy community. She replies, “There is no choice, Elias. He will stay.” It doesn’t seem like she actually cares about what he’d choose in his right mind, just about using the sex pollen to railroad him into the life she wants with him. This doesn’t mean she was always like that (she herself has been exposed for a long time, though she doesn't change much when the spores lose their hold on her), but her disinterest in his consent to life with her makes this ostensibly sweet romance 100x creepier. Not helped by the sex pollen itself and her avoidance of explanations when Spock is still in his right mind and could decide for himself.

Read more... )
anghraine: kirk and spock stare at each other in a turbolift on the enterprise; their shadows projected on the wall behind them are nearly touching (kirk/spock [turbolift])
Further contemplated the femslash Spirk concept while I was going to sleep, inevitably, and concluded:
  • I am perfectly aware this has been done before in the last, you know, nearly 60 years of this ship’s towering fandom influence; I’ve definitely seen art and cosplay. However, I’m deliberately insulating myself from reading any other versions until the finer details are more nailed down in my own head.
  • McCoy is definitely still a man (specifically DeForest Kelley c. TOS) because it only later occurred to me that 1) thematically, I definitely prefer this trio as a mixed gender group and 2) the advocate for emotion and instinct and human warmth being a male doctor and the voice of logic and discipline being a woman and technically his superior pleases me greatly. I also like the McCoy-Kirk brotp as a male-female friendship that is intense, complex, and 100% platonic.
  • I’m still figuring out how Kirk being repeatedly menaced by the woman of the week would pan out with f!Kirk. With m!Kirk, it feels like the show pushes him having an irresistible appeal to women in general (regardless of the woman’s morality) that is in part where this ultimately comes from, but a) the show is also very concerned with matters of autonomy/violation mainly mediated through him as protagonist, and b) he’s got a lot of Odysseus tropes to him (among others) as a character that make his femme fatale allure and willingness to use it as a tool more interesting than as the inevitable fate of a female space captain. Also, even in a femslash context, it feels homophobic for it to always be women sexually harassing f!Kirk, especially considering just how far it goes in S3 (I think his first basically consensual kiss, in terms of both consent and all his faculties being online, is 16 episodes into the season, and that one is a result of deliberate deception; 18 episodes in, he has an actual if underwritten romance, but he's also being dangled by a third party before his love interest as a sort of glorified sex toy, though both he and the woman in question are allegedly truly in love, and at that point he's been raped at least once and I would argue twice, and had a purely non-con kiss and another that's dubcon at best).
  • Kirk’s going to be Jessica instead of my original idea of Deborah. I was thinking of what would be a sturdy, ordinary name in the Midwest comparable to James that would also abbreviate conveniently to a common short form (Jim / Deb / Jess). I wanted the shortened version to be something that could carry the emotional weight of Spock’s very occasional “Jim” without feeling that the nickname itself is more significant (gender-wise) than Jim is for a dude from Iowa. I also wanted to avoid the -y/-ie endings of so many English nicknames (sorry, Francophones). Deb seemed to work well, except I’d forgotten that I have a considerably older family friend who not only uses Deb (and is named Deborah) but happens to have very similar coloring and background to young Shatner. As I was plotting the femslash, the association with her felt increasingly weird and uncomfortable, so I switched to Jessica (chosen for reasons largely unrelated to it also beginning with J, but that helps!).
  • Does Jessica Kirk wear the miniskirt and go-go boots while issuing non-negotiable orders from her captain’s chair? Definitely.

Tagged: #i feel like jessica unironically loves the uniform and s'paak finds it deeply impractical for both of their positions #also the aesthetic is vaguely romulan and she doesn't care for that at all. except on kirk specifically for mysterious reasons #a mystery requiring further study obviously. lots of further study.
anghraine: kirk stands behind an elderly man turned away from him; kirk's manner is severe and almost menacing while the old man (kodos the executioner) looks thoughtful (kirk and kodos)
Speaking of my TOS watch, I’ve noticed that the writing for Kirk in particular has gotten sharply worse overall in S3 (also for other characters, but less obtrusively), yet when it’s good, it’s really satisfying.

I loved both Kirk and Spock in “For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky,” for instance. It’s a good episode in general (maybe one of the least awful about women in TOS) and a really nice McCoy episode as well, but I enjoy how Kirk and Spock are kind of confused about McCoy’s marriage but ultimately willing to support their friend. And it ends not only with McCoy’s cool wife surviving and becoming even more of a leader of her people than she was before (and this framed as unambiguously Good), but iirc Kirk and Spock prepared to make the occasional detour to her colony so McCoy can visit her without leaving his career behind. And while Spock was something of a flanderized dick in “That Which Survives” (if in a way that can easily be read in K/S terms), it’s got some very solid Kirk characterization:

MCCOY: Could it be the Enterprise hit the planet?
SULU: Once in Siberia, there was a meteor so great that it flattened whole forests and was felt as far away as—
KIRK: Mr. Sulu, if I'd wanted a Russian history lesson, I'd have brought along Mr. Chekov. This is a matter of survival, gentlemen. Without the Enterprise, we need food, and we need water, and we need them fast. I want a detailed analysis made of this planet, and I want it now.

Kirk [to Sulu]: Your report covers all vegetation?
Sulu: Yes, captain. All vegetation is inedible. Poison to us.
McCoy [to Kirk]: If the Enterprise has been destroyed, you know how long we can survive??
Kirk [grimly]: Yes. [pause] I don’t see any water, but there must be some to grow the vegetation. A source of water would stretch our survival. Did you see any evidence of rainfall?

Shatner doesn’t overplay the moment IMO, but there’s a quiet weight to Kirk being The Starvation Expert of the team given uhhhhh his personal history—and also the fact that this episode is one of few that (in a completely different scene) explicitly acknowledges other TOS episodes.

Tagged: #this single moment just feels so weighty and the way everyone defers to kirk not only as captain but as knowledgeable about survival #and how it's not overblown the way so much of s3 kirk is...whew. nice to see some good character choices here and there too #it /is/ wild to me that the jj abrams star trek gives kirk the most generic Troubled Youth backstory possible #when his canon backstory is infinitely worse. canon kirk survived starvation and the massacre of 4000 people in his colony at age 13 #and afterwards became a bullied nerd (established on multiple occasions!) until he found his true calling of commanding a starship #i get wanting to split into a different timeline etc etc but damn chris pine could have done something great with a more nuanced kirk #OH also. kirk seems to get more obligatory ''''romance'''' scenes than ever before in this season #but these relationships also seem much more often dubiously consensual at best on his side also #he's either a prisoner or an amnesiac or enthralled by a drug or whatever in them until literally episode 21. #in which he falls for rayna the robot #the relationship is terribly written but at least they're both allegedly choosing it (and even there flint is dangling kirk in front of her #like a sexy lure or something. batshit concept but they're definitely being manipulated - and still i think it's the most purely consensual #relationship that kirk has in the whole season thus far) #ngl him stranding deela to die without sharing the antidote and flying away was probably the most cathartic kirk dubcon plot conclusion #i'm predictably very tempted by femslash kirk/spock sometimes but it does feel that this would be more expected for f!kirk #anyway. weird trend in a weird season but it's nice when his backstory is remembered at all

[ETA from 4/6/2025 re: "tempted by femslash kirk/spock sometimes but" hahahahahahahahaha]
anghraine: choppy water on a misty day (sea)
If you follow me on Tumblr, you've seen me trip into an unexpected (for me) Kirk/Spock spiral. I knew, of course, that the ship is the granddaddy of modern western slash fandom—and fandom as many of us know it wouldn't exist without the ship's passionate early fandom—but given that a) ships can be wildly popular without me personally finding them compelling and b) I don't tend to be into m/m in general, I really didn't expect I would fall head over heels for it.

I think partly it's because sometimes I was watching with people who strain to ignore all hints of homoerotic subtext between anyone when it's not explicitly spelled out, and I was annoyed at the refusal to even consider any other possibility than The Holy Bond of Totally Platonic Heterosexual Dude Friendship despite the truly copious amount of material in this case. But even apart from that, I went from being a bit surprised the foundational slash fandom juggernaut wasn't "more or less typical bromance filtered through fandom goggles" but actually the real super homoerotic deal to "losing my mind about this" due to some particular, uh, incidents in TOS. The final straw for me was actually the season 3 episode "Requiem for Methuselah" (in which Kirk has a decidedly mediocre het romance Spock visibly dislikes, leading to a final scene in which McCoy claims Spock can't understand love triangles or the victories or agonies of love that Kirk has experienced, and without so much as a scene break Spock just waits for McCoy to leave and then wipes his rival from Kirk's memory. unhinged gay shit is what I needed to truly succumb, I guess!). But there were also three major S1 episodes that heavily contributed to my eventual "AHHHHHH MY SHIPPP" downfall. These weren't the only wildly shippy moments in the season (hahahahahaha), just the ones that were the emotional equivalent of being punched in the stomach:

1) "The Naked Time": I love this episode for many reasons, not only K/S ones (in fact, more for Spock feelings in general). However. This is the episode where everyone gets space drunk and loses all their inhibitions, so they just start doing whatever their repressed instincts and fantasies and emotions drive them towards (the fantastic "I'll rescue you, fair maiden!" -> "Sorry, neither" Sulu-Uhura scene happens in that context). Most people are just kind of silly. However, there's a point where Nurse Chapel passionately declares her feelings for Spock, and he gently rejects her but is deeply upset about it. The next time we see inhibition-free Spock, he's jumped from feeling terrible about Chapel to feeling terrible about his mother's emotional isolation on Vulcan, and his own participation in it. Kirk tries to shake him out of it, and an increasingly anxious Spock confesses, "Jim, when I feel friendship for you, I'm ashamed." Kirk keeps trying to shake him back to his senses and he just says in agony, "Understand, Jim. I've spent a whole lifetime learning to hide my feelings..."

I will say that normally, I am not one of the lesbians who finds much catharsis in m/m or mediates my own feelings about my own marginalized sexuality through it (my main exception to this was Faramir/Aragorn as a teenager). But Spock's "in vino veritas" being not daring escapades or wish-fulfillment fantasies, but misery and shame over both his feelings and his detachment (in the fourth-aired episode of the nearly 80 episodes of the series), and also shame over his lifelong attempts to conceal what, and how much, he truly feels just hit so hard. The fact that we later discover that his cultural norms led to him getting railroaded into a het marriage as a literal child and that he clearly loathes the necessity of sex with his wife only intensifies the sense of déja vu I started getting. Who knew that watching subtextual pining from a science-fiction show aired in 1966 could tear off the scabs on my "lesbian raised Mormon" damage? Not me until this episode!

[ETA: I know some of you are SNW fans, so note that I'm pretty harsh about it under the cut.]

Read more... )
anghraine: vader extending his lightsaber; text: and now for the airing of grievances! (Default)
For context: my best friend J is an ultra-ultra-dedicated Star Trek fan. I saw re-runs as a kid and had a lot of lingering goodwill towards TNG in particular, but not especially clear memories apart from First Contact (J and I had a beloved English teacher in high school who assigned it to our class :D). I haven't watched much of the newer stuff, even. I saw two JJ Abrams films (the first seemed a perfectly fine film if slightly vacuous—it felt rather more like SW than ST in some ways, but not enough to be fully satisfying as either, while the sequel sucked in a "we should have seen TROS coming" way). I haven't seen any Discovery, Prodigy, Lower Decks, or Picard episodes, just two episodes of SNW that were okay, but not really my thing. They're polished, but struck me as rather unambitious in a ST context. That said, J really, really loves other ST (he considers it basically his religion, despite decidedly rough patches such as Picard) and I hadn't seen any of the older stuff in ages, so I was thinking vaguely of catching up with some old school ST.

Meanwhile, we were negotiating our next Media Experience awhile back, and he really wants me to watch Andor. In part, this is so we can talk about it, and in part because he genuinely thinks I'd like it apart from his admission that it handles Cassian oddly given his characterization in Rogue One, but he thinks I could overlook this in the face of the show's greatness. (He does not do social media and does not fully grasp the extent of my Rogue One!Cassian stanning.) We were talking it over and I was trying to evade committing myself to watching Andor and was suddenly struck by a burst of Machiavellian genius.

him: I think you really would love it if you'd give it a chance.
me: I have a counter-proposal, since the last thing we watched was also your idea.
him: ...yeah? A different Star Wars?
me: No. Star Trek.
him: ...
him: ...
him: O_O
him: ...like, Discovery or...?
me: No. I've been meaning to catch up with the older shows, since I don't remember them very well, except bits of The Next Generation.
him: Wow. Okay. Um, well, which one ... it can't be Deep Space Nine because we're watching that later in the summer, and Voyager is, well, I love it, but like a three-legged dog. I can't really recommend starting there. But we could watch some highlights of TNG...
me: I wasn't really thinking of a highlights reel experience...
him: O_O
him: I guess we could actually start with the original series, though there are some complications with the early episodes and multiple pilots and everything, and, well, sometimes it's extremely 60s...
me: Okay, let's see!

So while this originated in a cunning plot to evade Andor by throwing in all of Star Trek in front of him like a red flag in front of a bull, I didn't want to only be using his favorite thing as a delaying tactic, obviously. I definitely wanted to give ST a fair shot and think about it and try to engage properly, etc.

I don't always have time for it, but so far we've watched the following episodes (in this order):

Read more... )
anghraine: a painting of a woman with high cheekbones and long blonde hair under a silver circlet (éowyn)
It's always kind of morbidly fascinating how much online Tolkien fandom is so powerfully shaped by the Jackson LOTR films, widespread Silm fanon based on brief and usually ambiguous scraps (if based on anything other than "stuff fandom BNFs came up with"), and bits and pieces from random documents Tolkien actually wrote (including things he explicitly discarded). And it's like—there's nothing wrong with liking the films, for all my gripes with them. I disagree w/ a lot of particular takes on them and resent their stranglehold on the fandom and the incessant glorification of that stranglehold, but they're powerful movies and I myself likely would have taken much longer to get into the book if not for the atmosphere created by the films.

But the posts about how wonderful it is that Tolkien fandom has moved past those silly days of yore when fanon spliced with the films spliced with decontextualized scraps wasn't the main mode of Tolkien fandom engagement, and how the Peter Jackson filter on everything Tolkien is right and good and maybe even a matter of social justice (?????) and so on are definitely frustrating. Without even getting into specific discourses, Tolkien fandom can be profoundly alienating if you're not into 1) the Jackson films or 2) popular fanon. And yeah, ultimately that's just a fandom misalignment between my personal interests and that of much of the larger fandom, and obviously they can and will do fandom in whatever way makes them happy. That's fine. But the active celebration of fandom pressure to conform to the interpretations of people who had no more impact on Tolkien's work than me is pretty deeply grating, ngl.

And the idea that incorporating popular bits and pieces of Tolkien material to augment the fanon+PJ!LOTR version of Middle-earth just proves that Tolkien fandom has left their movieverse days behind and is really about love for the books these days is like ... what. How does that even make sense? Fandom does not have to be about love for a specific source material and there is plenty to criticize and correct in Tolkien, yes. But there's a way in which I can respect people who say "I'm here more because I love the LOTR movies and the material created by the Tolkien fandom community than for most of what Tolkien actually wrote" (something I have seen people say!) far more than these saccharine celebratory posts about how Tolkien fandom has come so far by driving out book fans and, idk, desperately searching for a woman to blame for everything that goes wrong in the First Age.

(I recently encountered the theory that Celegorm's actions towards Lúthien are not driven by anything stated but by a desire to avenge Aredhel's rape/imprisonment by Eöl. Silm fandom quickly seemed like the Mirror Universe version of the Silmarillion when I got into it years ago, but at that point, I was just like "okay, Celegorm trying to rape Lúthien is actually Aredhel's fault? Sounds like a perfectly typical Silm fandom take.")

Anyway. There are definitely corners of Tolkien fandom that aren't like this and mutual disaffection is how I met most of my friends in the fandom, etc. But BNFs patting themselves on the back over how fantastic the current atmosphere is for everyone who matters :)))) does absolutely set my teeth on edge.
anghraine: a photo of green rolling hills against a purply sky (hertfordshire) (herts)
Back to Ovid: just read “Procne and Philomela” and what the fuuuuuck

Tagged: #yeah this wasn't one that showed up in my childhood books for completely understandable reasons #how is someone worse than jupiter
anghraine: a photo of green rolling hills against a purply sky (hertfordshire) (herts)
I reblogged this post [cw for rape] and added:

ae;lkdf there’s this “cruel little boy” who reports Proserpina eating the pomegranate, so she can’t go home. She moans, then turns him into a screech owl.
anghraine: a photo of green rolling hills against a purply sky (hertfordshire) (herts)
Pluto and Proserpina/Hades and Persephone in Ovid is uhhhh

[CW rape]

Read more... )
anghraine: choppy water on a misty day (sea)
I reblogged this post, and added:

OTOH, “Callisto” is :( :( :( :( :(

Tagged: #i remembered that it was bad but not that jupiter transformed himself into diana to fool her :(

anghraine: a picture of multnomah falls in oregon: a tall waterfall with a wooden bridge connecting either side (multnomah)
I’m currently 25 pgs into the Metamorphoses, and the gods have managed to be even worse assholes than I expected!

I guess Apollo has some excuse in being struck by Cupid’s arrow, but literally the first thing Jupiter says to Io is:

“Virgin worthy of Jove, clearly destined to make
Some man or other happy in your bed,
You should find some shade over there in the woods”

>_<

Tagged: #yes yes values dissonance but also: the fuck? #also i'm not sure it is /that/ much values dissonance; the introduction argues that the gods are deliberately written as capricious tyrants #in any case jupiter is so relentlessly terrible that it is all the more satisfying that ovid explicitly compares augustus to him

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anghraine: vader extending his lightsaber; text: and now for the airing of grievances! (Default)
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