anghraine: a shot of an enormous statue near a mountain from amazon's the rings of power (númenor [meneltarma])
An anon on Tumblr said:

First of all congrats on nearing the end of your PhD program!!! Woohoo!!!

Second of all, I’m muy late to the party here (been off tumblr for a bit) but WRT these tags ( https://www.tumblr.com/anghraine/749212904253947904/khazzman-tolkien-elendil-was-called-the ) what do you mean the pregnancies were strange lol how strange can they be…?


[The tags in question: #and that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of how distinct and peculiar númenóreans are #fandom has slept on it for decades but they are reallyyyyyy unusual #they have weird pregnancies (and few of them) and horse telepathy and can rarely even get injured much less sick #there's this part where tolkien is trying to mathematically figure out elvish aging (hilarious tbh) and pencils in 'and númenóreans' #that's not even getting into the uncanny valley of númenórean kids...]

My reply:

As for the first point: Thank you! I'm really looking forwards to being done, lol.

As for the second point: anon, I delight in your innocence.

Read more... )
anghraine: a picture of grey-white towers starting to glow yellow in the rising sun (minas anor)
[personal profile] chestnut_pod left an intriguing comment on my post here in terms of racial purity/elitism in regard to Gondor c. LOTR and the characterization of contemporary Gondor by other characters, most glaringly Elrond. I started to reply more concisely, but the rant grew, so I'm just posting it here:

I always struggle with the reality that much of what Elrond says about Gondor at the Council is objectively wrong as well as repugnant, but the narrative doesn't really frame any of it as incorrect or morally dubious or a reflection on his character at all (despite the semi-corrections made by Faramir later, which somewhat ameliorates this, but only somewhat). In fact, the person who is framed as suspect in the Council interactions is Boromir for being offended and "rudely" outspoken about it (both on behalf of Gondor and Rohan) in addition to being ambivalent (not even especially negative! just unsure!) about the practical significance of Aragorn's pure royal blood.

Elrond also glorifies Gondor's former imperial power through comparison with Númenor's. His regret over Gondor's decay is tied to ideas of racial impurity (which in Gondor is a direct consequence of Númenórean and Gondorian imperialism, and which in any case is a bizarre characterization choice for him specifically) and to Gondor's inability to sustain its empire. I feel like all these sentiments are treated in the text as pretty understandable and sympathetic and right-thinking, even if Elrond turns out to be mistaken about some specific things.

Basically, it feels like the general perspective is that the Stewards were wise to move towards a more diverse and integrated Gondorian society, to recruit outsiders, to do what was necessary to keep Gondor standing and opposing Sauron where multiple purer and more insular factions failed. They were wise to relinquish imperial holdings they didn't have the power or inclination to control. But this stuff also seems to be treated as a regrettable necessity. All this is tragic and everyone who cares is kind of sad about it. As a result, Elrond's melancholy over modern Gondor, while mistaken on specific points, seems somewhat validated by the narrative framework.

For instance, in the description of the (100% heroic) people of Lebennin, we can see that element of reservation about modern Gondor with regard to race and racial mixing:

the most part of the people of Gondor lived in the seven circles of the City, or in the high vales of the mountain-borders, in Lossarnach, or further south in fair Lebennin with its five swift streams. There dwelt a hardy folk between the mountains and the sea. They were reckoned men of Gondor, yet their blood was mingled, and there were short and swarthy folk among them whose sires came more from the forgotten men who housed in the shadow of the hills in the Dark Years ere the coming of the kings. But beyond, in the great fief of Belfalas, dwelt Prince Imrahil in his castle of Dol Amroth by the sea, and he was of high blood, and his folk also, tall men and proud with sea-grey eyes.

And I think Aragorn and his royal purebloodedness are deeply bound up in this. To an extent, this framework also validates the Northern Dúnedain's prioritization of Númenórean purity above all else. The negative extreme of their position is mediated through Gondor (in the Kinstrife) and then (~sadly but necessarily) becomes less of a priority over time. Thus Gondor survives through "hard" choices like "sustaining the population through interracial marriage" and "including local indigenous people as full citizens." So there's still a substantial polity left for the ultimate result of the Northern Dúnedain's blood purity—Aragorn—to rule over and "restore". But the Northern Dúnedain themselves don't have to compromise their valuation of purity for this to occur, and in fact, the purity they so carefully maintained in the royal line only makes it all the more natural for Aragorn to rule over the racially and culturally "impure" Gondorians and to forge their nation into a new, kinder and gentler(...) empire.

Further tangent: It's unsurprising that Tolkien struggled a bit with figuring out who would be suitable for Aragorn to marry and thus whose blood would mingle with his into the next generation. If I recall correctly, Arwen was created pretty specifically to be Aragorn's queen and to reinforce his bloodline (this was done in a fairly evocative way, but still). I do get why Tolkien felt Éowyn was too young etc for Aragorn, and I prefer Faramir/Éowyn by a mile, but I am not convinced that Éowyn's "lesser" racial status (in-world) was not also part of the calculus.

Anyway, I guess Aragorn's rule is the intended compromise between Faramir's explicit "a king would be nice but not dominating other people" and the various awful imperial legacies at play. But it feels to me like the suggestion here is that the problem is doing empire wrong rather than doing empire at all.

I do think that Tolkien had pretty messy feelings about this and you can see him trying to complicate various aspects in some of his post-LOTR writings. LOTR frames early Númenórean imperialism as uncomplicated benevolence towards, I think he said, "lesser" races of men; over a very long time, their dominance in Middle-earth becomes corrupted and nightmarish. But by "The Mariner's Wife," it's evident that their involvement was morally compromised and horrific from day 1, yet Tolkien also tries to complicate that with Aldarion's mixed motives (partly it's straightforward empire-building for its own sake, but partly he's trying to prepare for a very real threat and Ancalimë's refusal to continue his policies in Middle-earth is not exactly bad but certainly not good). Tolkien even argues in Peoples of Middle-earth that the High Men/Middle Men/Wild (or Dark!) Men distinction in LOTR is entirely about cultural affinity for "The West" rather than race as such (I doubt this was quite the intention in LOTR itself), and moreover adds that plenty of people had pretty good reasons for cultural opposition to "The West" because of devastation previously wreaked by Western powers like Númenor. (The subtext is not subtle.)

But I think there's always this partly-aesthetic, partly just racist appeal of the "good" empire ruled by a(n ideally pureblooded & superior) racial elite for him, alongside his ever-increasing skepticism about what this entails and what it can lead to and if it will inevitably be corrupted and how that interacts with (in his view) the intrinsically fallen nature of humanity. So it's a mess and there are these points of reservation and skepticism and outright criticism of things like racism and empire and the interrelationship between them embedded within his work that can give us some room to maneuver, I guess? But the overarching trends voiced by characters like Elrond and Aragorn are still really present and unavoidable.
anghraine: a shot of an enormous statue near a mountain from amazon's the rings of power (númenor [meneltarma])
I’ve always thought it interesting that “The Mariner’s Wife” places such an emphasis on Erendis looking strange (in a beautiful way, but strange) to other people on Númenor. Aldarion thinks she’s an Elf (from Tol Eressëa, I think?) until he gets close up, and we hear later that other Númenóreans are struck by her appearance, because it is “of a kind seldom seen in Númenor; for Beregar [Erendis’s father] came of the House of Bëor.”

So it’s pretty much wholly attributed to her being Bëorian. It turns out that her whole region was predominantly settled by Bëorians, so it seems to be a regional thing.

The physical difference between Hadorians and Bëorians is usually presented in terms of hair color, but … it’s hard for me to see the other Númenóreans as so agog at someone simply having dark hair. To me it sounds like there’s something more, idk, substantial in the difference of appearance—something which, to go by Aldarion’s initial reaction to her, is at least somewhat reminiscent of the Elves who visit Númenor (presumably Eldar). Of course, Bëorians looking somewhat (or in some cases, very much) like Eldar is not new, but it adds to the association there.

This is doubly interesting because the Faithful primarily came from the same region and thus, it’s very possible that the Númenórean ‘look’ among their descendants would be more like Erendis than what was typical of most Númenóreans.

I’m not sure what Erendis does look like tbh, but I do think her look—and by extension, Bëorians’ and most of the Faithful’s—would be pretty distinctively different. 

Tagged: #i imagine that the transition to númenóreans /generally/ looking like elves is still ongoing at this point #but once it really takes hold most númenóreans look like vanyar and faithful like noldor #which is honestly kind of hilarious to me given the uhhhh cultural dynamics there #but what that difference /looks/ like beyond coloring is still up for grabs
anghraine: a letter from the 1790s, written on yellowing paper (letter [1790s])
I normally try to restrain the impulse to dive back into Silmarillion discourse hell, but there’s Eärendil and Elwing wank in my activity bar, and … damn, some people want them to be proto-Aldarion and Erendis so much.

Tagged: #i actually can imagine that aldarion himself /did/ see his relationship with erendis through an eärendil-elwing filter #until it became manifestly obvious that it was in fact radically different #and even then he's like ... the real problem was not having matching lifespans!! #but that's a separate matter

[personal profile] heget responded:

link? (also i wonder how many children of active duty service members might have a different read to what i bet this hot take is)

I replied:

Oh, it’s nothing new (different post, same take as usual), but I was just thinking over it and like … the whole dynamic that gets promoted in these takes seems so much more like Aldarion/Erendis+Ancalimë than Eärendil/Elwing+the twins.
anghraine: vader extending his lightsaber; text: and now for the airing of grievances! (Default)
Hills I will die on:

Fíriel’s claim to the throne of Gondor and Arvedui’s claim to the throne of Gondor are not the same!

Arvedui tries to claim the throne for himself through Fíriel, under the pretense argument that that’s how it worked in Númenor. But in Númenor, Fíriel would be Ruling Queen, and Arvedui her consort, not the other way around. The only men who claimed to be king through their wives’ birthrights were usurpers. And Fíriel never claimed the Gondorian throne in her own right.

Arvedui also claims the throne as heir of Isildur (sort of—iirc his father was actually alive at the time?). This is the sole claim that Arvedui and Fíriel’s descendant Aragorn makes later, which perhaps suggests that he sees it as more legitimate or at least more persuasive. Regardless, it’s a separate matter from Fíriel’s rights, and I think the lines between the two distinct claims that Arvedui makes get blurred a lot.

Tagged:

#'fíriel should have been ruling queen' is fair (i wrote fic about it in my youth!) but also never under discussion in the story #and aragorn himself gives no indication of thinking he should be king as /fíriel's/ heir—only isildur's #and we know vanishingly little about fíriel's life much less her opinions #my headcanon is that she went back to minas anor with her daughters and lived in state as a princess of gondor #but #we don't know what she felt or did or anything #so it's always kind of weird when people defend arvedui's false representation of númenórean law bc fíriel got treated unfairly #jka;dfad it's not exactly everything that makes me defensive on aldarion's behalf #but like #arvedui: my wife being daughter of the king means i should be king actually #aldarion and ancalimë: *spinning in their watery graves* #yes i've talked about this before and yes i will talk about it forever

anghraine: a man with long black hair and a ring on his hand (faramir [hair])
In response to this post, crocordile (now elwing) said:

😂😂😂😂😂

I replied:

It's TRUE.

She said:

Also your tag ☺️☺️☺️💖💖💖

I replied:

It took me time to see the truth, but here I am!

anghraine: a photo of a woman with thick black hair (tüba büyüküstün) as f!faramir (fíriel)
me at 20: I get where both Aldarion and Erendis are coming from, and … I mean, Erendis probably has more going for her, but she’s so deeply flawed that I don’t know … eh

me at 34: ALL BOW BEFORE ERENDIS TAR-ELESTIRNË, QUEEN OF EVERYTHING

(Not a lot of my Tolkien opinions have changed, but the ones that have ... really have. See also: Túrin Turambar.

...Also, technically I am not 34, but the ides of March are closing in, so I'll round up.)
anghraine: noatak/amon from legend of korra standing atop a waterspout overlooking buildings with equalist flags (noatak [waterspout])
Auto-correct keeps trying to switch #tarrlok to #tar aldarion, which … lol, is not a crossover that had previously crossed my mind.

The only way to make Noatak and Tarrlok's story sadder: stick them in The Silmarillion! I mean, Aldarion would definitely be a waterbender ...

anghraine: vader extending his lightsaber; text: and now for the airing of grievances! (Default)
Inspired by a Twitter conversation:

One of the more important things about the material around Aldarion and Erendis is that it destroys the idea that the early stage of Númenórean imperialism was purely benevolent.

Like—Erendis may be rightfully bitter, but she is 100% right about sexism and war (certainly no one is able to offer a rebuttal, and her denunciation foreshadows where it’s going to lead). Tolkien says of Aldarion’s actions in Middle-earth:

The changes that followed were largely due to the operations of Tar-Aldarion, the Mariner-king, who formed a friendship and alliance with Gil-galad. Aldarion had a great hunger for timber desiring to make Númenor into a great naval power … [and i]n voyages down the coasts he saw with wonder the great forests, and he chose the estuary of the Gwathló for the site of a new haven entirely under Númenórean control. …[T]he native folk that survived fled from Minhiriath … The devastation wrought by the Númenóreans was incalculable.

That’s not “if you read between the lines you can see—” That’s The devastation wrought by the Númenóreans was incalculable, right there. It got very much worse later on, but at no stage was it harmless.

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anghraine: vader extending his lightsaber; text: and now for the airing of grievances! (Default)
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