anghraine | Entries tagged with fic talk: rivendell

Still thinking about the Faramir AU, and:

I think the Moria section would wind out in basically the same way, though Gandalf’s death would hit Faramir harder than Boromir.

Faramir canonically has reservations about Lothlórien and Galadriel, so how does that go down? Especially the mental examination bit, which I think would be quite odd for him as someone who is more accustomed to being the person who sees part of what’s going on in the hearts and thoughts of others, and less often the person who is seen. (Though he would certainly have some experience of the latter w/ Denethor.)

What about, you know, the Ring? IIRC it gets stronger the closer it gets to Mount Doom, so the temptation he faced in canon would actually be considerably stronger than what he faces here, but a one-time experience where this is an ongoing, grinding thing. I’ve seen it suggested that he’d still be the weakest link, but I think he could resist it as much as any of the non-hobbits, but that’s still only so far, and his canon response in TTT suggests that he’d understand that.

What ultimately separates the Fellowship? Faramir wouldn’t be going off to take the Ring, so that whole set piece would work differently. I don’t think there’s reason to assume he’d die; him going would make very little overall difference in that case, except to possibly make things worse, and part of the point of him being meant to go is that it would make a significant difference, for the better. I think my idea in the original Faramir-goes-to-Rivendell fic I wrote as a teenager was that he perceives more clearly than the others that the Fellowship can’t hold out indefinitely, and privately tells Frodo so. Frodo then decides to go alone. These days … hmm.

Does Faramir join the hunt for Merry and Pippin, assuming that that pretty much follows canon? He’d want to get back to Gondor, but I think he’d always do what he considers the ethical thing, so it’s not hard to imagine him joining them. He’s also a Ranger and very tall; I don’t think he’d hold them back speed-wise. So that would go pretty similarly.

And then, Rohan!

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An anon said (wrt this):

The Eowyn/Faramir shipper in me wants to suggest that Faramir keeps his horse but shows up at the same time as Boromir because he lingers at Meduseld, fascinated by Eowyn, but I feel like Faramir is too dutiful for that lol I do love the potential this AU has for that relationship - as much as I love the Houses of Healing, it would be interesting to see how they would bond when not immediately recovering from trauma...

I replied:

Haha, I was just writing up an addition that’s like … okay, how do Faramir and Éowyn interact? They’d meet when he first passed through—does he fall as rapidly as in canon? What does Éowyn think of him? What does he pick up from Wormtongue? If he does still fall like a ton of bricks for her, that’d be a hell of a situation to leave behind. I mean, it is anyway, but there are just so many questions that arise from that.

I tend to agree that he wouldn’t linger; he’d give a warning, but he’s got divine commands to follow. Still, I think it could definitely affect how their relationship winds out. It’d be more protracted in some ways, and there’s a big question of whether she still gets infatuated with Aragorn with Faramir there. If Faramir and Éowyn do fall in love in the TTT timeline, her pain would be different but perhaps all the more present when it’s real love at work.

Alternately, it’s possible that Faramir is initially overshadowed by Aragorn, and he doesn’t end up in the Houses of Healing because he’s on the Paths of the Dead, and following that arc to get back to Gondor. Then he would be off to Mordor (maybe that’s when she realizes her true feelings), or maybe she realizes after the victory when she’s supposed to return to Rohan … there are a lot of ways it could play out.

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rain-sleet-snow responded to this post:

This is INCREDIBLY interesting and I am very much here for any further thoughts you might have!

I replied:

Thank you!! I have another post in drafts, lol, so there'll definitely be more.

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While I’m at it, some thoughts on Faramir at Rivendell:

- All my thoughts are underpinned by my firm belief that Faramir was, rightly, the preferred choice of whoever sent the dreams (Irmo?) and things would have worked out better if he had gone. So I’m not here for things like “Faramir would have died on the journey because Boromir is tougher and ultimately all fallen into ruin”

- In fact, I think it’s possible that Faramir would have made the journey more easily, because although Boromir is tougher than he is, it’s entirely believable that Faramir (who is repeatedly described as a master of beasts and, in canon, can keep his horse under control in the face of five Ringwraiths) is the better horseman and wouldn’t have lost his horse on the way—

- allowing for the possibility that Faramir is already at Rivendell when the others arrive (it’s also possible, for convenience, that these things basically cancel out and he gets there at the same time as Boromir, but I think it’s more interesting if we look for differences).

- If the former, there’s time for significant interactions with Elrond, Bilbo, random Elves … how does that go? Especially since Faramir canonically thinks it’s dangerous to have too much to do with Elves these days.

- Pippin registers Faramir as vaguely Elvish in canon, and also in canon, Legolas later recognizes and respects that Faramir’s uncle is partially Elvish. Does that hold for Faramir or is he more associated with Númenor/Aragorn/Gandalf(!) like Denethor?

- Specifically, how does the “the blood of Númenor is spent in Gondor and the country is in decay” stuff work with a Gondorian Dúnadan right there in whom the blood of Númenor is clearly not spent and who believes that the integration of non-Númenóreans strengthened his people, but also believes that the Dúnedain are permanently fading? Does it come up?

- Gandalf is eager to consult with Faramir in ROTK and stressed about him not being in Minas Tirith yet. How does he react to reaching Rivendell and finding Faramir, of all people, just … there? And brought by a prophetic dream? How does Faramir react to Mithrandir showing up?

- Really curious how the psychic powers possessed by quite a few characters here, including Faramir, play out generally.

- Pippin’s first impression of Faramir is affected by a) Faramir having just risen above a harrowing experience and b) reminding him of Aragorn in his (A’s) ‘high’ moments; at this point, unless I’m misremembering, Pippin would have little/no experience of either, so I’m also curious about how much of his canon first impression would be present in the AU.

- Similarly, I’m curious if Sam would associate Faramir with wizards without the trial of the Ring. What does he think of Faramir’s ‘quality’? And vice-versa?

- Really curious about how Faramir and Aragorn interact without Faramir being unconscious and dying and the whole mystical kingly … everything going on, especially given Faramir’s canonical skepticism in TTT. I tend to assume that Imrahil gave Aragorn some background on Faramir’s situation in ROTK, but with no Imrahil present and no or very few preconceptions, what do they think of each other?

That’s not even getting into, uh, most of the plot, just Faramir literally being in Rivendell. But, obviously, there are plenty of things to think about through the rest of LOTR, too!

Tagged: #faramir #elrond #bilbo baggins #(i mean. faramir and bilbo interacting is just... amazing) #(though i think i'm most interested in faramir+elrond and faramir+aragorn) #i think one of the things that makes the au so interesting #is that lotr is so tightly plotted that any change creates major effects #but it's also really clear that there's some happier alternate scenario with faramir that was supposed to happen #but it takes some doing to figure out how to make it end up there without adding in a bunch of changes that don't follow from it #...none of which this post was about but anyway

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An anon asked:

Are there any Faramir going to Rivendell AUs that you would recommend? The only other one I've seen apart from yours was movie-verse which was an instant no from me

I replied:

LOL, same.

And yeah, people sometimes talk about it as some major bookverse genre, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen one that doesn’t significantly incorporate movie canon. In fairness, I haven’t read much Faramir fic since my 20s, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the same now.

In fact, I was just thinking yesterday about wishing I could magic one into existence (well, actually two different ones!), but … no success.

Tagged: #i probably won't ever return to 'better choice' but i hope i'll write a new one sooner or later #even if only in snippets #but yeah never found one that clicked with me

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heckofabecca responded to this post:

Oh mood

Like… Did they not read TTT???

My guess is that things would have gone *better*, for whatever definition of better there is, but that Boromir receiving the dream meant that his going ALSO ensured success because while he wasn’t preferred, he was still acceptable re:the quest being fulfilled

I replied:

I basically agree. I don’t think his going ensured success (too many other people’s choices etc at work), but he was a legitimate option to the powers that be, even though they preferred Faramir.

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I’ve talked about it before, but it’s really weird to me when people complain about “Faramir is the one who goes to Rivendell” as a concept when Tolkien goes out of his way to emphasize that the sender of the dream favored Faramir.

Unless I’m misremembering, Faramir has the prophetic dream first, and has it repeatedly where Boromir only has it once, and everyone but Boromir agrees that Faramir should be the one to go. It was Boromir alone who insisted on taking Faramir’s place, and he managed to carry the day. No, it’s not that it was morally wrong for him to take the journey on himself; on the contrary, it was noble and heroic. But that doesn’t make it the only or best course of action when Faramir was clearly being favored…?

Tagged: #also pretty weird when people are like 'it would doom the quest' or 'it would change nothing bc faramir would do the same thing' #they're... different people...? #but also it's just really clear that faramir was meant to go #like—if i set out to write it again i would be way friendlier to boromir than i was at 18 #i'm really fond of boromir! #but i still wouldn't nail it to the railroad tracks of canon as if faramir and boromir are the same person #OR as if faramir cannot possibly be better equipped to deal with any situation ever than boromir #which is ... kind of how some posts on my dash seem to talk

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I really love the scenario where Faramir goes to Rivendell because of all the possibilities it unlocks (and I don't buy that whoever favored him in the dream-sending thing was wrong or manipulative, whatever the mechanical difficulties). And that's not super unusual, though there's often at least some ~~boring~~ "but the plot requires it be Boromir" responses.

And one of the things that people who like the scenario tend to bring up is that Faramir would click a lot more with the Rivendell atmosphere in general. He loves lore and music, he's up to his ears in Númenórean mystique and even Elvish vibes to Pippin (Faramir's maternal uncle is instantly recognizable to an Elf as part Elvish, fwiw), Faramir is wary of Elves but I suspect less so than Boromir, and his mixture of stern resolve and gentle compassion seems a pretty natural fit for Team Elrond. Faramir and Elrond could have a really cool dynamic! And I agree with all this!

However, "cool dynamic" reads a bit differently to me than I think most others who like the scenario because—

Elrond:

“But in the wearing of the swift years of Middle-earth the line of Meneldil son of Anárion failed, and the Tree withered, and the blood of the Númenoreans became mingled with lesser men. Then the watch upon the walls of Mordor slept...” (FOTR)

Faramir:

“Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the living, and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer than the names of sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry; in secret chambers withered men compounded strong elixirs, or in high cold towers asked questions of the stars. And the last king of the line of Anárion had no heir. But the stewards were wiser and more fortunate. Wiser, for they recruited the strength of our people from the sturdy folk of the sea-coast, and from the hardy mountaineers of Ered Nimrais.” (TTT)

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With regard to this post, yavieriel said:

the more you talk about this the more I want to read it

I replied:

haha, the more I talk about it, the more I want to read it >_<

( tag )

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I’m thinking about the moment when Pippin first sees Faramir in person and is struck by his raw charisma, thinking that it’s less “high” than Aragorn’s can be at odd moments, but also more immediate.

It’s such an odd moment—charming! but kind of odd. And I was thinking about a Faramir-at-Rivendell AU, and how Pippin would first react to Faramir there. It’d be without the context of Faramir’s extraordinary heroism vs the Ringwraiths, and also without the context of Aragorn’s moments of high but (by comparison) incalculably remote Presence, which iirc Pippin wouldn’t have really seen yet.

And, in canon, however their relationship develops after, it results in Pippin naming his son for Faramir. This is a big deal!!! But I’m wondering how it would register and develop in a scenario where he initially doesn’t even know who Faramir is and doesn’t have an easy metric for comparison.

( tags )

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An anon said:

"But I must admit," he added with a queer laugh, "that I hoped you would take to me for my own sake. A hunted man sometimes wearies of distrust and longs for friendship" // Suddenly Faramir stirred, and he opened his eyes, and he looked on Aragorn who bent over him; and a light of knowledge and love was kindled in his eyes

Bless you, anon! I totally had not put those together and ahhhh

…you know, I had never thought of a ‘Faramir goes to Rivendell as intended’ scenario with Aragorn/Faramir, but now I’m imagining how it would go if—I mean, without the healing it’s not so LO THE KING, but still, I can’t think that Faramir’s radar wouldn’t go off to some extent (+maybe not love at first sight, but at least liking at first sight) and, thinking of the first quote, it’d just be such a nice thing for them??

( tags )

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In response to this, moggett on Tumblr said:

I still love those Faramir in Rivendell stories!

I replied:

Aw, thank you! I’d definitely do a lot differently if I were writing them now, but they were very important to me and a lot of fun. I didn’t think anyone still read them!

(LOL, I added in the tags: #i just had the horrifying realization that i have followers younger than those fics)

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This was for a meme!

ygrittebardots on Tumblr asked:

September: share a comment or review which still warms your heart?

I said:
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