crosspost: Boromir and Gandalf [Dec 2016]
Dec. 20th, 2018 02:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
anghraineI never really thought about it before, but in Gondor, Gandalf is known as Mithrandir—it’s absolutely invariable. Even Gondor-oriented historical notes generally prefer ‘Mithrandir.’ Faramir says that ‘we’ call him Mithrandir, and that’s exactly what we see in ROTK—every single Gondorian we meet uses the name, whether they’re being respectful or not.
Unless I am completely misremembering, though, Boromir uses ‘Gandalf.’
Why?
I mean, it’d be one thing if Boromir were a random Gondorian Dúnadan who had always heard of him as Mithrandir, but not actually known him. Yet Gandalf knows the Steward’s family personally. His relationship with Faramir is solid enough to be a major bone of contention between Faramir and Denethor; Gandalf both trusts and seems to deeply care for Faramir. We don’t exactly know how Boromir figured in all this, though he seems generally ambivalent. Of course, there’s no reason to assume that the strength of Gandalf’s relationship with Faramir extends to Boromir. But it does extend to Boromir knowing Gandalf—as Mithrandir.
The two possibilities seem to be:
1) For whatever reason, Boromir doesn’t actually know Gandalf that well. Or at the very least, he hasn’t developed the strong association of Gandalf to Mithrandir that the other Gondorians have.
But … I mean, even random guards know him as Mithrandir. There are unnamed messengers in the middle of battle who cry that ‘not all will follow Mithrandir.’ EVERYONE uses it.
It’s hard to see the in-story logic. On the meta level, I guess it could be a mark of just how out of sync Boromir is—not just with his weird fey family, but with his people at large.
There are a couple of other remarks about that; he’s not just unlike Faramir and Denethor, he’s unlike Gondorians, period. (There are others suggesting that he actually represents what most Gondorians are now like. You choose!) It still doesn’t answer the question in the Watsonian sense, though, and it’s also … Boromir, however much he may be atypical of some/many Gondorians, is emphatically associated with Gondor itself. It’s still pretty weird.
2) Of course Boromir knows Gandalf as Mithrandir. He’s just flexible—i.e., he’s stuck with a bunch of Northerners who largely use Gandalf, so he adapts to their usage for general convenience.
I actually think that’d be interesting as a character note. “Flexible” is not the first word that comes to mind for Boromir, but honestly, there might be some support for it. I’ve mentioned before that Denethor’s perception of Faramir as the difficult child and Boromir as the good one is not exactly wrong. It’s mentioned repeatedly that Faramir does go his own way, following his convictions regardless of circumstance. We know that the Rohirrim found Boromir a lot more accessible than other Gondorians—maybe it’s not that he’s so different from them in general, as that he’s much more able than most Gondorians to shift with the environment and the needs of the moment.
It’s doubly interesting, in fact, because that’s a very noticeable quality of Aragorn’s. I think it’s Shippey who talked about what a chameleon Aragorn can be—humble and gracious among Elves, bold and proud among the Rohirrim, cautious and restrained in Gondor. He’s not internally inconsistent, but he is extremely adaptable, probably the quality that most distinguishes him from the unbending Denethor (and in his way, Faramir).
But it might not be that different from Boromir.
Unless I am completely misremembering, though, Boromir uses ‘Gandalf.’
Why?
I mean, it’d be one thing if Boromir were a random Gondorian Dúnadan who had always heard of him as Mithrandir, but not actually known him. Yet Gandalf knows the Steward’s family personally. His relationship with Faramir is solid enough to be a major bone of contention between Faramir and Denethor; Gandalf both trusts and seems to deeply care for Faramir. We don’t exactly know how Boromir figured in all this, though he seems generally ambivalent. Of course, there’s no reason to assume that the strength of Gandalf’s relationship with Faramir extends to Boromir. But it does extend to Boromir knowing Gandalf—as Mithrandir.
The two possibilities seem to be:
1) For whatever reason, Boromir doesn’t actually know Gandalf that well. Or at the very least, he hasn’t developed the strong association of Gandalf to Mithrandir that the other Gondorians have.
But … I mean, even random guards know him as Mithrandir. There are unnamed messengers in the middle of battle who cry that ‘not all will follow Mithrandir.’ EVERYONE uses it.
It’s hard to see the in-story logic. On the meta level, I guess it could be a mark of just how out of sync Boromir is—not just with his weird fey family, but with his people at large.
There are a couple of other remarks about that; he’s not just unlike Faramir and Denethor, he’s unlike Gondorians, period. (There are others suggesting that he actually represents what most Gondorians are now like. You choose!) It still doesn’t answer the question in the Watsonian sense, though, and it’s also … Boromir, however much he may be atypical of some/many Gondorians, is emphatically associated with Gondor itself. It’s still pretty weird.
2) Of course Boromir knows Gandalf as Mithrandir. He’s just flexible—i.e., he’s stuck with a bunch of Northerners who largely use Gandalf, so he adapts to their usage for general convenience.
I actually think that’d be interesting as a character note. “Flexible” is not the first word that comes to mind for Boromir, but honestly, there might be some support for it. I’ve mentioned before that Denethor’s perception of Faramir as the difficult child and Boromir as the good one is not exactly wrong. It’s mentioned repeatedly that Faramir does go his own way, following his convictions regardless of circumstance. We know that the Rohirrim found Boromir a lot more accessible than other Gondorians—maybe it’s not that he’s so different from them in general, as that he’s much more able than most Gondorians to shift with the environment and the needs of the moment.
It’s doubly interesting, in fact, because that’s a very noticeable quality of Aragorn’s. I think it’s Shippey who talked about what a chameleon Aragorn can be—humble and gracious among Elves, bold and proud among the Rohirrim, cautious and restrained in Gondor. He’s not internally inconsistent, but he is extremely adaptable, probably the quality that most distinguishes him from the unbending Denethor (and in his way, Faramir).
But it might not be that different from Boromir.
no subject
on 2018-12-23 07:48 pm (UTC)1) he never, ever, calls Aragorn "Thorongil" though he clearly knows that is who he is talking to, and makes reference to having heard of Aragorn and is essentially unsurprised to meet him in Rivendell (he arrived fortuitously! You kind of wonder what Thorongil told Denethor, or what Denethor deduced, and how). The hobbits call Aragorn "Strider" and he is quick enough on the game to not be so rude as to call a man by an unwanted name-- he never says he heard of him as Thorongil, and basically implies if Aragorn goes with him to Gondor under his true name, he will paper over the problems between Denethor and Aragorn if he is really who he says, because if he is who he says, the current situation is so dire it will make Aragorn's military prowess too valuable to throw aside for old grievances.
1.a-- that said, I do think blowing the horn of Gondor and saying he refuses to leave like a thief in the night, when all other cases of "Gondorian manners vs Good Manners" good manners triumph, is a subtle dig at Aragorn's manner of exit from Gondor.
2) Boromir is comfortable enough with Gandalf/self-assured enough to argue with a motherfucking wizard at one point and the text proves out his common sense logic (in my house we have a joke that's just "can we light the fire now, Gandalf?" to justify our habit of overpacking warm things) repeatedly; I just don't think even when elves call him Mithrandir that Boromir will be the dick going "yes, I know you" -- he and Legolas are the only people who know/knows of multiple people party members when he is a stranger to the hobbits (Thorongil leaves while he is a child, he may have memories of him, and if he doesn't, he certainly has heard stories about him). He becomes attached quickly to the younger two hobbits, burdening himself tremendously on their behalf, and I think we see how him using Sindarin around them and being a snob would very much diminish the image of him as "friendly to all manner of peoples". He has a king's education -- but he doesn't throw it around lightly. He is the general of probably the most diverse army in Middle-earth (if you read Gondor's ethnic make-up the way I do). It pays for Boromir to be flexible, adaptable, and open to whatever is the going mannerisms around him. He expects to be Steward of a massively populated country and conduct politics with numerous countries with many types of manners. I think Boromir has been drilled not to be rude when traveling out and about-- and he goes out of his way, continually, to prioritize putting the hobbits at ease. Gandalf the friendly wizard? Okay, all right, fine, that makes them happy. Strider-Aragorn, the ranger? Well he won't tell them about the Long Beef his dad has with the guy under an assumed identity. Boromir keeps his cards close to his chest -- in this way he is very like his father and brother.