Yoda theory + tentative Lucyfic idea
Jun. 5th, 2011 08:38 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
anghraineFanwank of the day:
When Luke decides to abandon his training and run off to Cloud City, Yoda famously warns him that if he goes, he will end up destroying all for which they have fought and suffered. This is one of the fandom's Great Conundrums, since -- as we all know -- Leia & Co were only able to escape because R2-D2 fixed the hyperdrive, and Artoo was only there because Luke brought him along. So Luke going to Cloud City indirectly saved his friends.
Moreover, Luke's confrontation with Vader (however psychologically scarring!) is what gives him the opportunity to sense the good in him, and Vader's "if you don't join me, I'll have to destroy you ... in a minute ... another minute ... wait, come back!" makes it KIND OF SUPER OBVIOUS. So if you think about it, Luke going to Cloud City led to his determination to save his father which led to the Emperor's death and the downfall of the Empire.
... Um. That leaves us with the immortal question of Yoda, what were you thinking?
The easiest answer is that he simply didn't know any of these things. Because ... obviously he didn't know any of these things. He figured that Vader would swat Luke like a fly and with no Luke, everyone would be DOOMED. The problem with this is that he doesn't give the slightest indication that he's speculating; he's not warning Luke of what might happen, he's informing him of what will happen. Now, admittedly, presenting erroneous personal opinions as absolute facts is something of a Jedi-'n-Sith specialty. But this seems to go well beyond that -- it sounds distinctly like foresight.
So let's suppose that Yoda saw some part of the future, and this led him to think that Luke's actions would end up dooming his friends. But given what actually happened in the future, it's hard to think of what he could have seen that would have led to his certainty in that conclusion. But then I had an idea which has undoubtedly occurred to millions of other people.
Always in motion, the future is.
The future, in the SW universe, is not set. Foresight, whether it's Luke's and Anakin's, or Palpatine's and Yoda's, is thus inherently fallible. A spanner in the works could come along at any moment, affecting the trajectory of the future, and VROOM, motion. The future they see is the one that's most probable, not that's inevitable. Palpatine apparently foresaw Luke destroying him. At around the same time, Yoda foresaw Luke destroying everything that Leia, Han, and Chewie had fought and suffered for. I guess that's the Rebellion - or as we say in America, FREEDOM!!
If clairvoyants indeed see whatever future is most probable, then the visions seen by Palpatine and Yoda likely belonged to the same continuity, as it were -- they're seeing different parts of the same future. At that point in time, Luke is on a path that's going to lead directly towards destroying the Emperor and the Rebellion.
Hm, what could it possibly be?
Well, the end of Empire may be a little forgettable, but if we stretch our memories, we might recall a kind of important scene where Luke is offered a chance to choose something that would inevitably lead to both of those things. By that point things already have failed to go according to plan -- Vader meant to freeze him in carbonite, cart him off (presumably not to the Emperor, given his ambitions) and then work on the whole supreme-lords-of-everything idea. I'm guessing amputating his limbs didn't figure largely in that plan.
What happened at Cloud City was not what was "supposed" to happen. Luke veered off his path - and I suspect, so did Vader.
In ROTJ, Yoda unequivocally states that he did not expect Vader to tell Luke about their relationship. Well, Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker and Padmé Amidala; for Vader to acknowledge Luke as his son is to acknowledge himself as Anakin Skywalker. Yoda's been absolutely convinced that Anakin is completely and irrevocably gone from the moment that he discovered Anakin had turned to the Dark Side (cf ROTS), and everything he says to Luke indicates that he remains firm in that belief. So maybe it's just that. But I think Yoda saw Luke being offered a choice that would lead to (1) the Rebellion getting destroyed, or (2) Luke personally destroying the Rebellion, and Luke's parentage didn't come up in that version of the conversation.
Anyway, to sum up the fanwank: Yoda is convinced that Luke going to Cloud City is going to destroy everything that his friends have fought for because he's foreseen Luke doing exactly that, just as Palpatine has foreseen Luke destroying him. If that future hadn't shifted, Luke would have ended up accepting Vader's offer, ruling the galaxy with him, and destroying both the Rebellion and the Emperor per their visions. Instead, Luke and Vader, defying all probabilitylike the causality-warping ta'veren they are did something else altogether and the future obligingly altered itself around them.
In other, uh, news, I'm incredibly behind on the au_bigbang stories. As always. I have a detailed outline for Revenge (very detailed) but only a little of one chapter is written. The Lucyfic, on the other hand, is only vaguely outlined (mostly there's just a list of places where the story changes - like, "birth, obvs - Biggs? - cantina! - Han suspicious? - stormtrooper? - duel!") but I'm into the third chapter, which is fairly good for me.
The problem is that the more I've thought about it, the more sprawling it gets. Not like First Impressions, which could have had a lot more to it but managed to tell the story well enough as it was. This is not localized, it goes where the genderswap takes it. And the SW universe is so blatantly patriarchal that it would change a LOT. And there are so many places I want to go with it, and a lot of them don't really have a lot to do with each other, and this is way more than one story can cover and hope to be halfway coherent.
Well, I thought, The Adventures of Lucy Skywalker could be the series and this story would just be one part of that. And then I thought, "heh, that sounds like a cheesy serial." And then I thought, "Wait, this is Star Wars! It was based on cheesy serials! It would make perfect sense to turn it into a serial!" So I think I might do that.
It'll be like this entire universe, with a bunch of distinct storylines and filler episodes and arcs across the different stories and stuff. The part that I'm working on right now is like the pilot, and the next one's going to be The Death Star. Then there's going to be The Jedi and the Sith Lord and it'll be the wonky gen Beauty and the Beast with lightsabers and I'll probably even base it on the Disney version for the lulz. And later on I can add things between them and finishing the main arc won't be tragically depressing like it was with First Impressions, because I can keep playing in the universe. Also, the au_bigbang story will basically be the first season, so I'll have some chance of finishing it.
Yay!
When Luke decides to abandon his training and run off to Cloud City, Yoda famously warns him that if he goes, he will end up destroying all for which they have fought and suffered. This is one of the fandom's Great Conundrums, since -- as we all know -- Leia & Co were only able to escape because R2-D2 fixed the hyperdrive, and Artoo was only there because Luke brought him along. So Luke going to Cloud City indirectly saved his friends.
Moreover, Luke's confrontation with Vader (however psychologically scarring!) is what gives him the opportunity to sense the good in him, and Vader's "if you don't join me, I'll have to destroy you ... in a minute ... another minute ... wait, come back!" makes it KIND OF SUPER OBVIOUS. So if you think about it, Luke going to Cloud City led to his determination to save his father which led to the Emperor's death and the downfall of the Empire.
... Um. That leaves us with the immortal question of Yoda, what were you thinking?
The easiest answer is that he simply didn't know any of these things. Because ... obviously he didn't know any of these things. He figured that Vader would swat Luke like a fly and with no Luke, everyone would be DOOMED. The problem with this is that he doesn't give the slightest indication that he's speculating; he's not warning Luke of what might happen, he's informing him of what will happen. Now, admittedly, presenting erroneous personal opinions as absolute facts is something of a Jedi-'n-Sith specialty. But this seems to go well beyond that -- it sounds distinctly like foresight.
So let's suppose that Yoda saw some part of the future, and this led him to think that Luke's actions would end up dooming his friends. But given what actually happened in the future, it's hard to think of what he could have seen that would have led to his certainty in that conclusion. But then I had an idea which has undoubtedly occurred to millions of other people.
Always in motion, the future is.
The future, in the SW universe, is not set. Foresight, whether it's Luke's and Anakin's, or Palpatine's and Yoda's, is thus inherently fallible. A spanner in the works could come along at any moment, affecting the trajectory of the future, and VROOM, motion. The future they see is the one that's most probable, not that's inevitable. Palpatine apparently foresaw Luke destroying him. At around the same time, Yoda foresaw Luke destroying everything that Leia, Han, and Chewie had fought and suffered for. I guess that's the Rebellion - or as we say in America, FREEDOM!!
If clairvoyants indeed see whatever future is most probable, then the visions seen by Palpatine and Yoda likely belonged to the same continuity, as it were -- they're seeing different parts of the same future. At that point in time, Luke is on a path that's going to lead directly towards destroying the Emperor and the Rebellion.
Hm, what could it possibly be?
Well, the end of Empire may be a little forgettable, but if we stretch our memories, we might recall a kind of important scene where Luke is offered a chance to choose something that would inevitably lead to both of those things. By that point things already have failed to go according to plan -- Vader meant to freeze him in carbonite, cart him off (presumably not to the Emperor, given his ambitions) and then work on the whole supreme-lords-of-everything idea. I'm guessing amputating his limbs didn't figure largely in that plan.
What happened at Cloud City was not what was "supposed" to happen. Luke veered off his path - and I suspect, so did Vader.
In ROTJ, Yoda unequivocally states that he did not expect Vader to tell Luke about their relationship. Well, Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker and Padmé Amidala; for Vader to acknowledge Luke as his son is to acknowledge himself as Anakin Skywalker. Yoda's been absolutely convinced that Anakin is completely and irrevocably gone from the moment that he discovered Anakin had turned to the Dark Side (cf ROTS), and everything he says to Luke indicates that he remains firm in that belief. So maybe it's just that. But I think Yoda saw Luke being offered a choice that would lead to (1) the Rebellion getting destroyed, or (2) Luke personally destroying the Rebellion, and Luke's parentage didn't come up in that version of the conversation.
Anyway, to sum up the fanwank: Yoda is convinced that Luke going to Cloud City is going to destroy everything that his friends have fought for because he's foreseen Luke doing exactly that, just as Palpatine has foreseen Luke destroying him. If that future hadn't shifted, Luke would have ended up accepting Vader's offer, ruling the galaxy with him, and destroying both the Rebellion and the Emperor per their visions. Instead, Luke and Vader, defying all probability
In other, uh, news, I'm incredibly behind on the au_bigbang stories. As always. I have a detailed outline for Revenge (very detailed) but only a little of one chapter is written. The Lucyfic, on the other hand, is only vaguely outlined (mostly there's just a list of places where the story changes - like, "birth, obvs - Biggs? - cantina! - Han suspicious? - stormtrooper? - duel!") but I'm into the third chapter, which is fairly good for me.
The problem is that the more I've thought about it, the more sprawling it gets. Not like First Impressions, which could have had a lot more to it but managed to tell the story well enough as it was. This is not localized, it goes where the genderswap takes it. And the SW universe is so blatantly patriarchal that it would change a LOT. And there are so many places I want to go with it, and a lot of them don't really have a lot to do with each other, and this is way more than one story can cover and hope to be halfway coherent.
Well, I thought, The Adventures of Lucy Skywalker could be the series and this story would just be one part of that. And then I thought, "heh, that sounds like a cheesy serial." And then I thought, "Wait, this is Star Wars! It was based on cheesy serials! It would make perfect sense to turn it into a serial!" So I think I might do that.
It'll be like this entire universe, with a bunch of distinct storylines and filler episodes and arcs across the different stories and stuff. The part that I'm working on right now is like the pilot, and the next one's going to be The Death Star. Then there's going to be The Jedi and the Sith Lord and it'll be the wonky gen Beauty and the Beast with lightsabers and I'll probably even base it on the Disney version for the lulz. And later on I can add things between them and finishing the main arc won't be tragically depressing like it was with First Impressions, because I can keep playing in the universe. Also, the au_bigbang story will basically be the first season, so I'll have some chance of finishing it.
Yay!