In memory of Purist Rantings (1.0)
Aug. 14th, 2010 05:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
anghraineI have just finished my last class of the term, which I may or may not pass (statistics, eurgh), and I decided to celebrate my vacation by dredging up what I could from the Wayback Machine's copies of Emyn Arnen -- a Tolkien (specifically, Faramir/Éowyn) site I talked about here. In particular, the old Purist Rantings threads.
A number of highly active members of Emyn Arnen, including yours truly, had many, many objections to the LOTR movies. Oh, we did love them. We just hated them, too. This is the purist way. Since we kept spilling over and offending the somewhat less ... hm, vocal filmfen, I made a thread strictly for ranting about the movies.
And we ranted. For thirteen pages. That's when the admins closed it and started a new one. We maxed that one out, too -- and the next. It was only on the fourth thread that we began to lose steam.
It would take hundreds of pages (and hours) to transcribe all of them. However, since they may vanish at any moment, I wanted to preserve them in some way. Therefore, I begin to provide the truly exhaustive version of ...
THINGS THAT ARE WRONG WITH THE MOVIES (... the first thread)
(1) Film!Legolas: "He is the heir to the throne of Gondor, and you owe him your allegiance."
Um ... no? Aragorn is a claimant to the throne of Gondor. One whose claim has already been rejected, at that. Nobody expected the film to explain the political background of Gondor and ex-Arnor -- we're fine with leaving things out, but not with introducing meaningless contradictions that only serve to undercut characterisation. Aragorn isn't heir unless the Steward says he's the heir, and Boromir must know that the chance of that is somewhere in the area of -12,000. He doesn't owe him anything and it's to his credit that he doesn't make trouble over it.
(2) Film!Galadriel's self-righteous observations on Men.
In general, the films are very much of the Can't Argue With Elves ilk, pretty much entirely overlooking the Middle-earth Elves' actual history. It reaches hilarious proportions when Galadriel insists that Men desire power above all else, whereasElves the other sentient peoples are somehow purer of heart. Not only does this ignore the absolute disaster that Elves wreaked on pretty much the entire world, including the parts Men lived in, and that her own uncle slaughtered her mother's people for their ships, it ignores the fact that Galadriel herself only came to Middle-earth at all because she wanted to rule her own kingdom. She's still there because her gods informed her that she and her power-hungry ways weren't welcome back home, whereupon she told them that she didn't want to go to boring old Valinor anyway, and she was going to stay and carve out her own dominion from the wreck of Middle-earth, so there.
Still, she's humility itself next to the other Noldor.
(3) Boromir ruffling Frodo's hair.
Elijah Wood notwithstanding, Frodo is fifty years old. He remembers Boromir as "lordly yet kindly," not as bloody condescending.
(4) The Ring falling off Frodo's neck.
This just doesn't make any sense.
(5) Galadriel's telepathy.
There is blatant telepathy in the book, but it doesn't work like that. Elvish magic is supposed to be subtle, not poor Elrond stuck with doomy dooms of doom from his mother-in-law.
(6) The Prancing Pony
The Prancing Pony is supposed to be bright and cheerful -- that only makes the danger more terrifying. But with atmosphere as well as everything else, the movies never went for 'subtle' when they could crash anvils over the audience's heads instead.
(7) Legolas as the expositor of Aragorn's backstory
Why does he know more about Aragorn than Aragorn does himself (only not -- see 1)? Why does he care?
(8) In general, the constant denigration of humans.
Some Men fall. Some wobble. Some are shining beacons of light. The same goes for everyone, pretty much -- Men's distinctive quality is not evil or greed or weakness but restlessness. This, incidentally, is a gift straight from God which even the subordinate gods will envy by the end. Not that it does them many favours in their own estimation, but still.
(9) Agent Elrond isn't exactly ageless. Or pretty.
This makes me sad.
(10) Celeborn the stoner.
Admittedly, he's pretty thoroughly in Galadriel's shadow even in the books, but that's a far cry from 'high as a kite.'
(11) Aragorn doesn't have Andúril for ... most of the story, actually.
This makes no sense. Aside of the fact that Elrond apparently flies in ROTK to get it to him in time for the plot, why wouldn't Aragorn get it reforged himself, before he heads out an adventure that will either kill him or take him to Minas Tirith? Meh.
(12) Gimli's character assassination.
Gimli is not comic relief. Tolkien hated that dwarfs had become little more than amusing sidekicks (he threw screaming fits over Snow White, seriously), and deliberately created his own dwarves to go against the new version. His dwarves are fierce, earnest, often greedy and sometimes evil, but never funny.
(13) The Ents' flip-flops.
First, it apparently hasn't struck them that Saruman is killing trees even though that's why they gathered in the first place, and secondly, they hastily spring into action when they discover this shocking factoid, like ... hasty things. Not Ents.
(14) Elves at Helm's Deep.
Just -- what? If they needed Elves doing something important, they could have, I don't known, shown what they were actually doing. It might have made Helm's Deep a bit less interminable, anyway. There are other fights in other places!
(15) Apparently, Gandalf's staff is the key to his power.
No. Just no.
(16) Aragorn's refusal of his destiny.
Yes, heroic journey blah blah blah. Except Aragorn is not the hero. Aragorn wants to be King. He'd probably want it even if it weren't Arwen's brideprice. He's absolutely convinced that it's his divine right. Sort of like Henry V and France, and about as complex. He might not be willing to march on Gondor, but taking up his forefathers' mantle is pretty much the driving purpose of his entire life. Without it, he doesn't have a purpose beyond the requirements of the present.
(17) Faramir's failure to refuse the Ring.
I don't even know where to begin. Not only is it an intensely dramatic scene in the original -- far more than the film version, IMO, even if nothing goes bang or slash -- it severely undercuts the significance of his character. They're terrified, exhausted, completely at his mercy, his adored brother has already fallen to it, they're doomed ... wait, what? He doesn't want it? He's helping them and risking his own life to do it? Wow, there's hope in the world after all.
He's not Boromir, he's like Gandalf and Galadriel before him: the people who acknowledge the Ring's allure, who recognise its power, its potential for victory over an impossible foe, and then say no, I do not wish for such victories. They emerge from the conflict (a much more serious one than the kind with swords and shields and such) triumphant because they're practically avatars of goodness and light and everything admirable about their respective peoples.
And Good > Evil. Even when Evil seems to win, it's only furthering the cause of Good. This is how Middle-earth works. It's built into the fabric of reality. What does film!Faramir's (brief) fall accomplish? Nothing whatsoever.
His sudden redemption doesn't make sense either. As far as I can tell, the only purpose to the whole thing was to draw out the movie.
Gah.
(18) The healing of Théoden.
Théoden did not 'fall' in filmland; that is, he didn't simply listen to Wormtongue, he didn't fall into despair, he didn't abdicate his responsibilities. He was just enchanted and he came out of it when Gandalf broke the enchantment -- full stop. He receives no culpability for falling away from proper kingship (an incredibly significant matter in Middle-earth) and no credit for coming back.
This is not what redemption is about.
(19) Aragorn's fall off the cliff.
I don't even understand the purpose of this entire ... whatever it was. More scene-filler? Because that's what you need with Tolkien.
Also, ever since nestashouse mentioned it, I've been irresistibly reminded of Wile E. Coyote and the Roadrunner. *headdesk*
(20) Disconcerting shout-outs to pop-culture (though I assume they're mostly unwitting)
The most obvious, and most frequently cited, is Théoden's death -- or rather, his conversation with Éowyn shortly before his death, wherein they quote Luke and Anakin Skywalker almost word-for-word. I think my favourite, however, is when they head towards Orthanc, and then (in the theatrical version) ... just don't go.
On second thought, let's not go to Orthanc. 'Tis a silly place.
A number of highly active members of Emyn Arnen, including yours truly, had many, many objections to the LOTR movies. Oh, we did love them. We just hated them, too. This is the purist way. Since we kept spilling over and offending the somewhat less ... hm, vocal filmfen, I made a thread strictly for ranting about the movies.
And we ranted. For thirteen pages. That's when the admins closed it and started a new one. We maxed that one out, too -- and the next. It was only on the fourth thread that we began to lose steam.
It would take hundreds of pages (and hours) to transcribe all of them. However, since they may vanish at any moment, I wanted to preserve them in some way. Therefore, I begin to provide the truly exhaustive version of ...
THINGS THAT ARE WRONG WITH THE MOVIES (... the first thread)
(1) Film!Legolas: "He is the heir to the throne of Gondor, and you owe him your allegiance."
Um ... no? Aragorn is a claimant to the throne of Gondor. One whose claim has already been rejected, at that. Nobody expected the film to explain the political background of Gondor and ex-Arnor -- we're fine with leaving things out, but not with introducing meaningless contradictions that only serve to undercut characterisation. Aragorn isn't heir unless the Steward says he's the heir, and Boromir must know that the chance of that is somewhere in the area of -12,000. He doesn't owe him anything and it's to his credit that he doesn't make trouble over it.
(2) Film!Galadriel's self-righteous observations on Men.
In general, the films are very much of the Can't Argue With Elves ilk, pretty much entirely overlooking the Middle-earth Elves' actual history. It reaches hilarious proportions when Galadriel insists that Men desire power above all else, whereas
Still, she's humility itself next to the other Noldor.
(3) Boromir ruffling Frodo's hair.
Elijah Wood notwithstanding, Frodo is fifty years old. He remembers Boromir as "lordly yet kindly," not as bloody condescending.
(4) The Ring falling off Frodo's neck.
This just doesn't make any sense.
(5) Galadriel's telepathy.
There is blatant telepathy in the book, but it doesn't work like that. Elvish magic is supposed to be subtle, not poor Elrond stuck with doomy dooms of doom from his mother-in-law.
(6) The Prancing Pony
The Prancing Pony is supposed to be bright and cheerful -- that only makes the danger more terrifying. But with atmosphere as well as everything else, the movies never went for 'subtle' when they could crash anvils over the audience's heads instead.
(7) Legolas as the expositor of Aragorn's backstory
Why does he know more about Aragorn than Aragorn does himself (only not -- see 1)? Why does he care?
(8) In general, the constant denigration of humans.
Some Men fall. Some wobble. Some are shining beacons of light. The same goes for everyone, pretty much -- Men's distinctive quality is not evil or greed or weakness but restlessness. This, incidentally, is a gift straight from God which even the subordinate gods will envy by the end. Not that it does them many favours in their own estimation, but still.
(9) Agent Elrond isn't exactly ageless. Or pretty.
This makes me sad.
(10) Celeborn the stoner.
Admittedly, he's pretty thoroughly in Galadriel's shadow even in the books, but that's a far cry from 'high as a kite.'
(11) Aragorn doesn't have Andúril for ... most of the story, actually.
This makes no sense. Aside of the fact that Elrond apparently flies in ROTK to get it to him in time for the plot, why wouldn't Aragorn get it reforged himself, before he heads out an adventure that will either kill him or take him to Minas Tirith? Meh.
(12) Gimli's character assassination.
Gimli is not comic relief. Tolkien hated that dwarfs had become little more than amusing sidekicks (he threw screaming fits over Snow White, seriously), and deliberately created his own dwarves to go against the new version. His dwarves are fierce, earnest, often greedy and sometimes evil, but never funny.
(13) The Ents' flip-flops.
First, it apparently hasn't struck them that Saruman is killing trees even though that's why they gathered in the first place, and secondly, they hastily spring into action when they discover this shocking factoid, like ... hasty things. Not Ents.
(14) Elves at Helm's Deep.
Just -- what? If they needed Elves doing something important, they could have, I don't known, shown what they were actually doing. It might have made Helm's Deep a bit less interminable, anyway. There are other fights in other places!
(15) Apparently, Gandalf's staff is the key to his power.
No. Just no.
(16) Aragorn's refusal of his destiny.
Yes, heroic journey blah blah blah. Except Aragorn is not the hero. Aragorn wants to be King. He'd probably want it even if it weren't Arwen's brideprice. He's absolutely convinced that it's his divine right. Sort of like Henry V and France, and about as complex. He might not be willing to march on Gondor, but taking up his forefathers' mantle is pretty much the driving purpose of his entire life. Without it, he doesn't have a purpose beyond the requirements of the present.
(17) Faramir's failure to refuse the Ring.
I don't even know where to begin. Not only is it an intensely dramatic scene in the original -- far more than the film version, IMO, even if nothing goes bang or slash -- it severely undercuts the significance of his character. They're terrified, exhausted, completely at his mercy, his adored brother has already fallen to it, they're doomed ... wait, what? He doesn't want it? He's helping them and risking his own life to do it? Wow, there's hope in the world after all.
He's not Boromir, he's like Gandalf and Galadriel before him: the people who acknowledge the Ring's allure, who recognise its power, its potential for victory over an impossible foe, and then say no, I do not wish for such victories. They emerge from the conflict (a much more serious one than the kind with swords and shields and such) triumphant because they're practically avatars of goodness and light and everything admirable about their respective peoples.
And Good > Evil. Even when Evil seems to win, it's only furthering the cause of Good. This is how Middle-earth works. It's built into the fabric of reality. What does film!Faramir's (brief) fall accomplish? Nothing whatsoever.
His sudden redemption doesn't make sense either. As far as I can tell, the only purpose to the whole thing was to draw out the movie.
Gah.
(18) The healing of Théoden.
Théoden did not 'fall' in filmland; that is, he didn't simply listen to Wormtongue, he didn't fall into despair, he didn't abdicate his responsibilities. He was just enchanted and he came out of it when Gandalf broke the enchantment -- full stop. He receives no culpability for falling away from proper kingship (an incredibly significant matter in Middle-earth) and no credit for coming back.
This is not what redemption is about.
(19) Aragorn's fall off the cliff.
I don't even understand the purpose of this entire ... whatever it was. More scene-filler? Because that's what you need with Tolkien.
Also, ever since nestashouse mentioned it, I've been irresistibly reminded of Wile E. Coyote and the Roadrunner. *headdesk*
(20) Disconcerting shout-outs to pop-culture (though I assume they're mostly unwitting)
The most obvious, and most frequently cited, is Théoden's death -- or rather, his conversation with Éowyn shortly before his death, wherein they quote Luke and Anakin Skywalker almost word-for-word. I think my favourite, however, is when they head towards Orthanc, and then (in the theatrical version) ... just don't go.
On second thought, let's not go to Orthanc. 'Tis a silly place.
no subject
on 2010-08-15 05:06 am (UTC)no subject
on 2010-08-15 01:55 pm (UTC)hehehehehe
on 2010-08-15 07:28 am (UTC)Re: hehehehehe
on 2010-08-15 01:58 pm (UTC)Thank you! We had an insane amount of fun, and stopped annoying people (...as much).