anghraine: elizabeth singing beneath darcy's portrait in "austen's pride" (elizabeth (the portrait song ii))
themalhambird responded to this post:

#this is interesting #although if you look at early modern english drama - Shakespeare's stuff #Johnson's #Middleton and others #i feel like the idea of marriage being at least in part about romantic ties is pretty clear

I replied:

Re: your tags—yeah, the idea that romantic marriage was not really a concept until The Rise of the Companionate Marriage™ is very easy to disprove in literature and even history, which is one of the problems with it. But I think it’s pretty clear that the concept as it manifested in, say, the mid-nineteenth century was shaped by quite different cultural norms and assumptions than in the late sixteenth/early seventeenth, and that romantic marriage as the dominating force of all family life was something that, while never unknown, grew very much more prevalent over time.

themalhambird responded:

#neat! #thanks for the clarification :D
anghraine: a screenshot of fitzwilliam and georgiana darcy standing together in the 1980 p&p miniseries (darcys (1980))
Rambling about family relationships based on my research for my PhD exams (16th- to 18th-century British literature):

One of the things that came up in my reading for my exams was, inevitably, ~the rise of the companionate marriage~. The usual framing is often over-simplistic and very heterocentric; people sometimes talk as if there was no concept of marriage involving romantic ties (sometimes even exclusive romantic ties!) until the 17th/18th century or something.

That said
, IMO there’s something to it, at least in England. As someone who had mostly done research in the 18th and earlier 19th centuries, 16th-century takes on marriage often sound like they come from Earth 2. Over time, there’s more and more emphasis on the ties of marriage, companionship, and parenthood in cultural discourse, with other family relationships increasingly subordinated to those, even while ideas from earlier periods about the importance of those other family relationships persisted in some ways.

Like, there was a lot of talk about how brothers were supposed to care for the interests of their siblings, especially their unmarried sisters, but there’s also a lot of talk about how that was increasingly not happening, and how the ties between brothers and sisters were becoming less important and less reliable as a "net" for unmarried women.

Men increasingly resented their sisters for taking resources that would otherwise go to their wives and children, or simply denied them meaningful resources altogether in favor of focusing on their own wives/children. It was a really well-established dynamic by the time that Wollstonecraft wrote about it in Vindication of the Rights of Woman and Austen in Sense and Sensibility.

One of the things that S&S highlights is that John and Fanny Dashwood’s son does not need the resources that are denied to John’s sisters. He already has a comfortable separate inheritance. John prioritizes Fanny and Harry over his sisters both because of his character and because doing so had become very culturally normalized by then.

By the 20th century (at least in the UK and US), people prioritizing their spouses and children over their siblings or other connections was and is often going to seem "well, of course they would." But the degree to which that is the case is really influenced by cultural norms and expectations. Going back to Austen (surprise), she has an intriguing passage about it that speaks to the shifts in how the sibling tie was seen and experienced:
An advantage this, a strengthener of love, in which even the conjugal tie is beneath the fraternal. Children of the same family, the same blood, with the same first associations and habits, have some means of enjoyment in their power, which no subsequent connections can supply; and it must be by a long and unnatural estrangement, by a divorce which no subsequent connection can justify, if such precious remains of the earliest attachments are ever entirely outlived. Too often, alas! it is so.—Fraternal love, sometimes almost every thing, is at others worse than nothing.
I don’t even have siblings (sort of surrogate siblings, but not people I was actually brought up with), but I do find the evolution and melancholy over this really interesting. And I do think that a lot of the, hmm, enthusiasm over the rise of the “companionate marriage” tends to ignore the cost of it.

Tagged: #i am pretty sure this is why austen keeps returning to darcy's sense of responsibility and deep affection for his sister #and why elizabeth thinks his way of talking about georgiana should have told her about his character #i've seen people be like 'just bc you care about your own family members doesn't mean you're a good person wtf' about that #but it was a big deal at the time! #wickham brings it up as something that people in general praise darcy for too #obviously this was of really immediate concern for austen herself #but plenty of people write about it over the years #and it's just ... idk #complicated

[ETA 5/28/2024: this is actually extremely relevant to my dissertation and something I was literally just writing about today!]

anghraine: a shot of holliday grainger's face as lucrezia borgia (lucrezia (the borgias))
I was feeling a bit gloomy about how, in many respects, my life is only just beginning at 38.

Meanwhile, in an article I was reading for my dissertation, there was a reference to the early seventeenth century pop culture concept of Lucrezia Borgia, with a footnote about Actual Historical Lucrezia Borgia (aka Lucrècia). I don't think it actually listed her age at death, but I already knew what it was, and reading about her reminded me of everything that happened to and around her before her premature death at age 39. At that point, she had already outlived most of her brothers and one of her two sisters.

This isn't an "everyone was dying of old age in their 30s back then" thing, which is a wildly inaccurate take on the human lifespan (the greater likelihood of dying young =/= 35-year lifespan). Lucrècia died young. She struggled through years of difficult pregnancies, including after providing her husband with an heir, and eventually died a few days after delivering a daughter who also died. Sarah Bradford's biography observes that Lucrècia had essentially emerged triumphant over the incredibly complex and daunting obstacles she was faced with throughout her life as a political figure, navigating them all, only for childbirth to kill her as it killed so many other women.

In her life, Lucrècia experienced luxury on a scale that is unimaginable to most people today, or ever. This isn't meant to downplay that, but ... it didn't save her. She was at once influential, resourceful, and profoundly exploited throughout her life in ways that hinged on her gender and culminated in her death, only for her name to be trashed for hundreds of years afterwards. This isn't unique to her, or to her region of the world, or her time, even though there were culturally specific elements at work.

And for all the awful, shitty elements of my life thus far, I'd much rather be facing the beginning of life at this age than the end of it.
anghraine: a stock photo of a book with a leaf on it (book with leaf)
I’m using Samuel Johnson for my exam, and he’s such an odd character.

He was pretty conservative in some ways, but also a hardline opponent of chattel slavery; his argument against the American Revolution was that the drivers of slaves had no moral ground for talking about liberty, and he argued in “A Brief to Free a Slave” (1777) that “No man is by nature the property of another.”

I took a class in which he was only mentioned as influencing a female novelist towards making her heroine more docile at the end, which, yeah, but also, a lot of British people more radical than he was could only seem to grasp slavery as a metaphor for their own lives or extension of their own experiences. Johnson was like, nope, even accepting that a person can give up their own liberty, they can’t make the choice for their children and descendants. And he argued that most people who end up in slavery didn’t give up their liberty but were abducted and traded by merchants whose right to do this had never been examined anyway, and the whole system was morally abhorrent in law and in practice.

He also had a pretty sympathetic take on mental illness in 1759, saying “To mock the heaviest of human afflictions is neither charitable nor wise. Few can attain this man’s knowledge, and few practice his virtues; but all may suffer his calamity.”
anghraine: a painting of a man c. 1800 with a book and a pen; the words love, pride, and delicacy in the upper corner (darcy (love)
[personal profile] heckofabecca responded to this post:

can you explain? ><

I replied:

Annabella Milbanke responded to P&P by saying something to the effect of “the interest is very strong, especially for Mr Darcy.” She also later married Lord Byron and had a terrible marriage. Scholars (and others) occasionally suggest that she liked P&P/Darcy for the same reasons that she was attracted to Byron (though that itself is a whole complicated issue). I think doing that is super gross.
anghraine: vader extending his lightsaber; text: and now for the airing of grievances! (Default)
Honestly … associating Annabella Milbanke’s disastrous marriage to Byron with her opinion of P&P/Darcy is gross as fuck and I immediately lose respect for anyone who does it.

Tagged: #i've come across it multiple times and aghhhh #it's obviously a terrible take on austen but it's also so victim-blamey and ... ugh

Whew

Mar. 13th, 2024 09:28 pm
anghraine: a picture of multnomah falls in oregon: a tall waterfall with a wooden bridge connecting either side (multnomah)
I got into a debate with a friend that touched on the Ottoman genocides, I went to do some research to make sure I was remembering details correctly, fell down a rabbit hole of research, and wow I'm not sleeping tonight.

The conversational aside was specifically about the assassination of Talaat Pasha, which also happened on March 15th. My birthday! I mean, not my birthday at the time, obviously—I would not be born until many decades later—but it is certainly a day for the annals of history. I cherish and respect Tumblr's hatred of Julius Caesar, but he's got nothing on Talaat Pasha. I wish I believed in hell specifically so I could believe he's burning in it.

(Fun fact: my grandmother, who is Greek, used to hint darkly about some misdeed of "the Turks" that she's still got a grudge about, and for years, I thought she was just being vaguely Islamophobic. I did eventually get the impression of something happening not long before she was born, maybe. But I was still really unsure about any details until I was digging through some articles on a trip during my master's program and discovered that "vague misdeeds" were entire fucking genocides that my own country, the USA, did not find it politically convenient to acknowledge until years later.)
anghraine: rows of old-fashioned books lining shelves (books)
I’m halfway through the current monster essay and the temptation to just say “I’m a doctoral student, not a historian!” is very strong.

Tagged: #me: *earnestly talking about how literary depictions and historical practice are very distinct things* #in general but also in this specific instance #...i think #but i don't know because I AM NOT A HISTORIAN
anghraine: choppy water on a misty day (sea)
I reblogged a infographic about the Greek genocide, and tagged it:

#this was such a genuine shock to learn about

Read more... )
anghraine: vader extending his lightsaber; text: and now for the airing of grievances! (Default)
An anon said:

there's a story on bbc today about the discovery of a set of diaries by a yorkshire farmer around 1810 discussing homosexuality in an apparently accepting and more-balanced-than-expected way - does that attitude surprise or confirm your own thoughts on this time period? and since i've mostly seen pop media coverage, have you seen discussion of this diary or analysis of it in your field that you'd be willing to share? :)

I responded:

I haven’t! But my interests/studies have kept moving earlier and earlier, so 1810 is pretty late for what I’m doing now (I specialized in the 18th & 19th for my MA, but I’m working in the 17th and 18th for my PhD).

That said, I wouldn’t be terribly surprised. IMO we often think of the past as a) something completely foreign or b) basically like here and now, only less ‘enlightened.’ And I think we have to resist that secondary impulse to flatten the often profound differences in place and time and culture. At the same time, it’s important to understand that … people are going to be people.

Because of that, there’s always going to be a considerable degree of variation in attitudes and not just a singular model of What People Thought Back Then. So it seems perfectly probable that some people would have ideas that sit pretty well with us, even though it’s not anything like the majority. You can find that wrt just about any issue in any period.

It is easy to find virulent and pervasive homophobia in the later 18th century, which I gather persisted beyond that time, so I wouldn’t be inclined to see the farmer as representative of the period per se. But it might show that there was a greater diversity in opinions and perspectives than what we often project onto the past.

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anghraine: vader extending his lightsaber; text: and now for the airing of grievances! (Default)
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