anghraine

An anon said:

Elizabeth/Colonel Fitzwilliam is a NOTP for me as well, the pairing seems to only exist to torment Darcy!

I replied:

*fistbump*

I know there are people who ship it for its own sake, as happens with any ship, but I get a reallyyyy strong “so THERE, Darcy” flavor from a lot of it.

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An anon asked:

Based on your family trees, who is Darcy close to, on both sides of his family?

I replied:

Okay, it is very cool to be asked—thank you, anon. And I needed a break from exam stress, so … here we go with the Fitzwilliams. I’ll do a separate one for the Darcys.

The short version: Colonel Fitzwilliam, Lord Rochford, Lady Mary, and Lord Ravenshaw.

The long and rambly version:

( Read more... )

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I reblogged my Fitzwilliam headcanon dramatis personae post, and added:

Note: when I was re-conceptualizing my Fitzwilliam headcanons, I had the idea of using an actual title invented by Austen, and then actually having the earl be that person and going from there. So:

The dowager Lady Ravenshaw here = the grandmother whose death puts an end to the theatricals in MP
Lord Ravenshaw here = P&P’s Lord ___ + MP’s Lord Ravenshaw, “one of the most correct men in England”
Lady Catherine = P&P’s Lady Catherine (of course)
Lady Ravenshaw = MP’s Lady Ravenshaw, who was playing Agatha very well
Lord Rochford = Colonel Fitzwilliam’s implied older brother in P&P
Lady Anne Brydges = mine, all mine!
Lady Mary Carlisle = the mother of the children whose existence necessitates the governess (playing the cottager’s wife) in MP
Colonel Fitzwilliam = P&P’s Colonel Fitzwilliam
Anne de Bourgh, Fitzwilliam Darcy, Georgiana Darcy = P&P
Sophia and Margaret Carlisle = children overseen by MP’s governess

Tagged: #me overthinking things? it can't be

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Anyway, the actual current Fitzwilliam headcanons c. 1796 [assuming a 1795-6 calendar for P&P, which I do], dramatis personae-style

CATHERINE, Dowager Countess of Ravenshaw—the very elderly grandmother to Lord Ravenshaw, Lady Catherine de Bourgh, and Lady Anne Darcy. She is reserved in person, though opinionated when she does speak, and maintains a lively correspondence with her family and friends while living quietly at one of the smaller Fitzwilliam estates.

EDWARD FITZWILLIAM, Earl of Ravenshaw—the wealthy and powerful (if short) head of the Fitzwilliam family. Lord Ravenshaw is interested in his near and extended family, Whig politics, and private theatricals. He is otherwise a severe but good-natured man with a good reputation among his peers and dependents alike.

LADY CATHERINE DE BOURGH, née Lady Catherine Fitzwilliam—the elder of Lord Ravenshaw’s two sisters. Despite her arrogant, domineering personality, she is generally on good terms with the other Fitzwilliams, whom she regards with pride and something like affection; in particular, she genuinely loved and was loved by her sister, Lady Anne Darcy.

MARY, Countess of Ravenshaw—the earl’s gracious, accomplished, and generally accommodating wife. Lady Ravenshaw is conscious of coming from a family of lesser fortune but greater age than the Fitzwilliams, but also somewhat daunted by the strong personalities around her. She is, unexpectedly, an excellent speaker and happily joins in her husband’s theatrical enthusiasms.

RICHARD FITZWILLIAM, Viscount Rochford—the eldest of Lord and Lady Ravenshaw’s children. He is handsome, kind-hearted, and agreeable enough in his way, but withdrawn, shy, and intensely high-strung. At thirty-five, he has never married, courted, or even seriously flirted with anyone, preferring books and the company of those he already knows.

LADY ANNE BRYDGES, née Lady Anne Fitzwilliam—Lord and Lady Ravenshaw’s elder daughter. She was a generally pleasant but very stubborn girl, and remains a generally pleasant but very stubborn woman, though she has become more assertive among her easy-going husband and in-laws than among her own intense and generally forceful relations.

LADY MARY CARLISLE, née Lady Mary Fitzwilliam—Lord and Lady Ravenshaw’s younger daughter. She bears a strong physical and temperamental resemblance to her sister Anne, though she is more reserved and abrupt. She was married young to a baron’s heir, but he predeceased his father and Lady Mary returned to her family with her two daughters.

COLONEL THE HONOURABLE JOHN FITZWILLIAM—the younger son of Lord and Lady Ravenshaw, and at thirty, their youngest child. While conscious of his comparatively disadvantaged position among his relatives, he is very loyal and close to them, especially his Darcy cousins. He is usually easy-going, but strong-minded and very pragmatic, all of which won the approval of his uncle Darcy.

ANNE DE BOURGH—the only child and heir of Sir Lewis and Lady Catherine de Bourgh, and thus niece to Lord Ravenshaw and Lady Anne Darcy. This Anne is quite genuinely frail, unlike the usually hearty Fitzwilliams, and has been sheltered to the point of suffocation by her mother, but also over-indulged by her. At twenty-eight, she is passive and resentful of slights, but not malicious.

FITZWILLIAM DARCY—the only son of Christopher Darcy, a wealthy, influential Fitzwilliam ally, and Lady Anne Darcy, the beloved sister of Lord Ravenshaw and Lady Catherine. Their affection extends easily to Darcy, whose personality falls well within the ordinary Fitzwilliam range—proud, intelligent, and forceful, but combining reserve and awkwardness with a basic good nature and competence.

GEORGIANA DARCY—the younger child and only surviving daughter of Christopher and Lady Anne Darcy. Her brother was the indulged youngest of the Fitzwilliam grandchildren until Georgiana’s birth twelve years after his own, yet he doted on her from that moment, as did their relatives and servants. She is nevertheless not at all spoiled, but shy, anxious, and uncertain of herself.

SOPHIA CARLISLE—the quiet, intelligent daughter of Lady Mary Carlisle and the Hon. Stephen Carlisle. Her father’s sudden death left her family as something like dependents on the new heir, which grated on Lady Mary. She received permission to return to her father’s household with the girls, and Sophia and Margaret were gladly welcomed by the Fitzwilliams.

MARGARET “MEG” CARLISLE—the younger daughter of Lady Mary Carlisle and the Hon. Stephen Carlisle. Meg is more outgoing and high-spirited than Sophia in general, but prone to fits of absent-minded silence. As the first children living at Ecclesford in a generation, Sophia and Margaret are particularly beloved by their grandparents, uncles, and most of their cousins.

Tagged: #i know this is probably of interest to like ... no one #but it's helpful to me and was fun to do SO

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An anon asked:

I'm curious what you think Colonel Fitzwilliam's reaction to Darcy's 1st proposal would be, if he ever heard of it (I think Darcy's too private to have shared what happened at Hunsford). Fanon always has him as the voice of reason who thinks Darcy's reservations about the marriage are ridiculous, but CF has very fixed notions on where it is acceptable to marry, and saw no issue with Darcy separating Bingly from a mesalliance, so I can see him not seeing the issue with the way Darcy proposed.

I replied:

I basically agree! I think he might well have quibbles about how Darcy presented his concerns, so in that sense he could see the issue, but I think it is quite possible that he would be reasonably sympathetic to Darcy’s concerns.

As a tangent, this kind of reminds me of a fic I wrote a longggg time ago, in response to this exact trend. In the fic, Darcy does tell someone about the proposal—an OC, Colonel Fitzwilliam’s sister—and far from objecting or ridiculing him, she completely agrees, so forcefully that it leads to him realizing how he must have sounded to Elizabeth. Even back then, I didn’t think he’d actually tell anyone (emphatic agreement there!); it came more from a general frustration with the treatment of the Fitzwilliams, especially Colonel Fitzwilliam, as these wholly sympathetic and right-thinking people who gave rise to Darcy and Lady Catherine by complete coincidence.

But yes, I think it’s possible to take a less rosy view of Colonel Fitzwilliam’s … umm, prudential approach to marriage and cheerful sympathy with Darcy’s interference in Bingley’s life (and IMO with Fitzwilliam's belated hint to Elizabeth) than many people do. And if you do, it’s very possible that Colonel Fitzwilliam could think that, well, maybe don’t play it up in the proposal, but those are real, valid concerns that are going to have to be dealt with.

Even looking at Fitzwilliam with a friendlier eye than mine, though, I still think it’s really improbable that Colonel Fitzwilliam’s response would be the same as ours or Elizabeth’s. Like, he’s the son of an earl in ~1795 or ~1812, and an earl who seems likely to be an allusion to a very powerful and influential RL one; classist pride isn’t going to be that outlandish to him.

It’s true that he’s willing to mock Darcy’s personal pride. But given what we see of his own approach, I think social/class/political issues might well be much more complicated for him, and he might easily see where Darcy is coming from.

Tagged: #few things have made me feel more out of sync with fandom than being ambivalent about fitzwilliam #so i really appreciated getting this!

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Poll #29125 Shipping Poll 1l

This poll is anonymous.
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 12

According to you, which ship is better?

View Answers

Luke Skywalker/Han Solo/Leia Organa
9 (75.0%)

Elizabeth Bennet/Fitzwilliam Darcy/Colonel Fitzwilliam
3 (25.0%)

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I made progress on the next chapter of LP&D, which is the chapter, at last:

It was during that third week that Mr Collins returned from his usual morning call to Rosings in a state of considerable excitement. Colonel Fitzwilliam and Miss Darcy had arrived at Rosings not long before, perhaps an hour, and he had seen them both. The ladies, even Elizabeth, listened carefully to all he could say of them. It was Mr Collins, so he took a great many words to say a very little, but he did manage to express that Miss Darcy was a handsome and elegant lady, equal to her cousin Miss de Bourgh, and Colonel Fitzwilliam was most amiable, as must be expected of a nephew of so affable and kind a patroness as Lady Catherine.

Elizabeth, though not inclined to trust Mr Collins’s opinions in most matters, supposed from this that Miss Darcy was not amiable, and Colonel Fitzwilliam was not handsome.

f i n a l l y

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In response to this post, moggett said:

Yeah, he or someone else also probably paid for his commission, which isn’t cheap, so he’s probably not living hand to mouth. Isn’t it more that he’s not able to keep himself in the style to which he is accustomed without help?

I replied:

Exactly. That’s why he “needs” to marry fortune.

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An anon asked:

I've been trying to work this out: is Colonel Fitzwilliam actually poor or is that just a fandom thing?

I replied:

As far as the text goes:

“He likes to have his own way very well,” replied Colonel Fitzwilliam. “But so we all do. It is only that he has better means of having it than many others, because he is rich, and many others are poor. I speak feelingly. A younger son, you know, must be inured to self-denial and dependence.”

“In my opinion, the younger son of an earl can know very little of either. Now, seriously, what have you ever known of self-denial and dependence? When have you been prevented by want of money from going wherever you chose, or procuring anything you had a fancy for?”

“These are home questions—and perhaps I cannot say that I have experienced many hardships of that nature.”

It seems to me that Colonel Fitzwilliam considers himself poor in at least some sense (he’s what Mary Crawford calls a “poor honourable”). He’s very likely much poorer than all known members of his family. His father is an earl. His older brother is the heir. One of his cousins is the heiress to a large estate in Kent. Another, Darcy, owns multiple estates. Darcy’s sister/Fitzwilliam’s ward has a fortune of 30,000 pounds.

Now, we don’t know the state of the Fitzwilliam earldom, so we don’t know how the exact financial situations compare, but if it’s anything like the real life Fitzwilliam earldom, the gap would be extreme. At the same time, dependency on your relatives’ vast wealth is … not really how I think of poverty, even if it chafes for a 30-year-old man.

Personally, I think Fitzwilliam likely has enough to live independently if he were really set on it, but it wouldn’t be remotely in the lifestyle he’s been brought up to, and he’s not willing to give up that life. I wouldn’t call that poor.

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Aesthetic post for the Fitzwilliams of Pride and Prejudice—my favourite of Austen’s families.

The extended Fitzwilliam family consists of the children and grandchildren of an unnamed earl, and several of them appear in P&P: Lady Catherine de Bourgh (née Lady Catherine Fitzwilliam), Fitzwilliam Darcy, Colonel Fitzwilliam, Anne de Bourgh, and Georgiana Darcy.

( tags )

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emily-elizabeth-rose said:

Re your meta on Ladies Catherine and Anne being close due to a distant father, I realised that Lady C was likely not close with her brother the Earl. Her father likely doting on the son while being distant to the girls causing resentment. So even with Darcy slow to marry Anne, Col. Fitzwilliam not raised as an alternative, even though he would come to Rosings rather than Anne leaving. Why not Col. Fitz? Because Lady C doesn't like the Earl and doesn't want his son to marry her daughter :0

I replied:

Hmm. While we know that Lady Catherine firmly believes daughters never matter to their fathers, which presumably extends to her relationship with her own father, all we know about her relationship with her brother is that his son comes to visit her. So it’s hard to extrapolate much from that. It does seem probable that someone with Lady Catherine’s personality would likely not have taken favouritism over her well, but the form that displeasure would have taken …?

The question I have isn’t about Colonel Fitzwilliam, since marrying a younger son without a significant fortune of his own wouldn’t be a great match for Anne. Sole, well-born heiresses of large estates were rare, and could hold out for very good matches; Fitzwilliam would only be a real possibility if Lady Catherine was absolutely set on Anne marrying within the family and his older brother was already married.

The real question, for me, is why Lady Catherine preferred baby Darcy over the viscount.

( Read more... )

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An anon asked:

Another P&P questions! At Rosings, do you think that Mr. Darcy's family members (especially Colonel Fitzwilliam) suspected him of deeper feelings for Elizabeth? Could his behaviour at that time be a factor why Lady Catherine after all (well, reluctantly, I guess) believed the rumor of Darcy's engagement to Elizabeth be quite possible? How do you interpret it?

I replied:

I think it’s possible Lady Catherine retrospectively found his conduct suspicious, but I think she definitely didn’t at the time, or her behaviour towards Elizabeth would have been much worse.

With Colonel Fitzwilliam, it’s possible that Fitzwilliam realized Darcy was interested in her. But it’s hard to see Fitzwilliam flirting with her to the point that he felt the need to clarify that he couldn’t marry her (I do agree w/ Elizabeth that that’s what he’s doing there) if he suspected Darcy of serious feelings. It’s after the proposal that his suspicions might arise—IMO Darcy had to have told him that Elizabeth might have specific questions about Wickham and even Georgiana, and that Fitzwilliam was to answer them.

I don’t imagine that he actually told Fitzwilliam about the proposal, though.

#i also don't think fitzwilliam's reaction would have been ... uncomplicated even if darcy did tell him #though that's tangential

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I’m not Colonel Fitzwilliam’s biggest fan, but sometimes I think about just how easy it would be for him to resent the hell out of Darcy.

Just imagine—you’re the younger son, and very conscious of it, but your even younger cousin is set to inherit multiple estates and wealth and influence with them. And he’s an only son and his parents encourage him to think he’s better than everyone. And they die, which is sad, but it does leave him a rich and powerful man at the grand old age of 23. His tenants and servants are devoted to him. His only sibling thinks he can never be wrong about anything, ever. When he shows up places, men and women alike start commenting on how attractive he is, while you are “not handsome.” Even your grouchy aunt has chosen him as her desired son-in-law. He doesn’t marry your other cousin, though—he marries the pretty girl you were flirting with, because of course he does.

And yet … they’re bffs who trust each other implicitly.

:)

#i love darcy more than any other character but like #his arc basically takes him from the guy who has it all to the guy who has even more of it all #he could easily be an incredibly irritating person to have in your family! #and fitzwilliam is clearly very aware of what he's missing out on by not being an heir #and yet ... constant intimacy!

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I felt like putting together dramatis personae of my headcanons for the Fitzwilliam and extended Darcy families, and by the time I was putting together a chart for the latter, was zooming merrily along. (Am I procrastinating grading? Maybe.)

Anyway, the actual current Fitzwilliam headcanons c. 1796 [assuming a 1795-6 calendar for P&P, which I do]:

( Read more... )

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The other unpopular opinion meme responses!

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My young Fitzwilliam and Darcy headcanon!

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Something I’ve always found really interesting is the way in which we see the uncertainty of the Bingleys’ social status.

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It's not really meta, but I want to preserve it anyway.

So, awhile back I might have counted the number of times the characters in P&P smile, or are mentioned as smiling. For general edification:

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wyncatastrophe prompted me to write a fic about one of my anti-ships, and I don't think I anti-ship much more fervently than this one - inspired by a recent debate I peripherally participated in, but I've always hated this ship:

( Read more... )

Current Location: St Helens, OR
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Crossposts: http://elizabeth-hoot.livejournal.com/151167.html

A very short, vaguely cracky response to the fandom's fixation on Darcy's attractiveness. Not pointing fingers in this case (I am equally guilty! and it's not like there isn't some glorious female gazing going on in canon), but for some reason I felt it needed even more fic.

title: untitled (aka the fic all about Darcy being gorgeous)
verse: canon-compliant

( Read more... )

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Current Music: damn neighbours
Crossposts: http://elizabeth-hoot.livejournal.com/138572.html

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Shipping Poll: OT3 edition!

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Fitzwilliam headcanons!

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crosspost: baby Fitzwilliam and Darcy

crosspost: on the Bingleys' status [Oct 2015]

crosspost: smiles! [Dec 2013]

anti-ship fic

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