anghraine | Entries tagged with ch: lord ----

I’ve been thinking back on the Fandom Experience, and was remembering the opposite of the vanity searching—some of the odder experiences of being told things directly:

I got a comment on a fic asking if leaving it unfinished made me feel desired.
I got a comment on a different fic telling me that they knew I wasn’t writing for the ’95 mini-series and that I dislike it, but that they always pictured my Darcy as Colin Firth anyway. Darcy is a) blue-eyed and b) a woman in that fic.
I got anonymous hate because I headcanon Luke Skywalker as asexual.
A troll apologized for missing my birthday.
A random person informed me that my fic was Wrong and Darcy’s mother wouldn’t be Lady Anne but Mrs Darcy, and his uncle should be Lord Matlock. [ETA 3/13/2024: Lady Anne being called "Mrs Darcy" and her brother being "Lord Matlock" are both from the ’95 mini-series and not in the novel; the first seems to be a mistake and the last an invention.]
Someone on AO3 told me that my fic was great, and also, it was shitty of me not to respond to comments.
Someone told me they had been sent by an anonymous group of haters who wanted me to tag my Silmarillion posts so they didn’t have to see them. (I already was tagging them.)
Someone told me that calling The Horse and His Boy racist made me the racist one, actually.

None of these were the end of the world, and my general experience of fandom has been mainly positive, but sometimes it is … really strange.

Current Location: Washington
Current Music: She's Always a Woman (Billy Joel)

An anon asked:

Based on your family trees, who is Darcy close to, on both sides of his family?

I replied:

Okay, it is very cool to be asked—thank you, anon. And I needed a break from exam stress, so … here we go with the Fitzwilliams. I’ll do a separate one for the Darcys.

The short version: Colonel Fitzwilliam, Lord Rochford, Lady Mary, and Lord Ravenshaw.

The long and rambly version:

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Current Music: What Is Eternal (Trans-Siberian Orchestra)

I reblogged this post and added:

Moving my notes to a separate reblog to match the Fitzwilliam post:

- The Howards were inspired by the nameless duke hanging out with Lord and Lady Ravenshaw in Mansfield Park. Since I made Lord Ravenshaw the same person as the Fitzwilliam earl in P&P, I thought it’d be fun to come up with a social connection between the duke and the Ravenshaws without making him a blood relative of them. I’m imagining that the duke in MP is actually Carrington, after the "present" (in 1796) duke dies.

- I named them “Howard” after the name Austen whimsically invented as a girl: Henry Frederick Howard Fitzwilliam. I’ve always thought the name’s ties to so many of her heroes was intriguing.

- Most of the particulars of the Howards are my own creation, and some have (sort of) come up in previous fics; Lady Georgiana, Lady Auckland, the Carringtons, and Miss Howard are all mentioned in The Letters of Elizabeth Darcy (1796-1798), and Lady Auckland is mentioned in passing in First Impressions. Lady Auckland also appears in person in a semi-crackfic, The Natural Daughter of Somebody.

- Lady Georgiana’s Carteret descendants are relatives of the late Lord Dalrymple referenced in Persuasion (i.e., the man whose widow is Lady Dalrymple and whose daughter is Miss Carteret). The Darcys themselves would also be related, more distantly, as Lady Georgiana herself is a Carteret relation. *waves at board* iT’S ALL CONNECTED

- Kympton is the living that was “supposed” to go to Wickham (…after he had already exchanged it for money). Thomas Stanley is the guy (in this ’verse) who got it instead. If you’re familiar with Austen quasi-canon, you might be able to guess at a little of his future.

- The junior branch of the Darcys are quasi-canon; Caroline Bingley mentions at one point that Darcy has a great-uncle who was or is a judge and whose portrait hangs at Pemberley. For the purposes of this ’verse, I assume the judge is dead, but was much younger than his brother Alexander (Lady Georgiana’s husband/Darcy’s grandfather), and also married quite late in life himself, resulting in children who are roughly contemporaries of Darcy and Georgiana.

*cough* … I think that’s all.

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I reblogged my Fitzwilliam headcanon dramatis personae post, and added:

Note: when I was re-conceptualizing my Fitzwilliam headcanons, I had the idea of using an actual title invented by Austen, and then actually having the earl be that person and going from there. So:

The dowager Lady Ravenshaw here = the grandmother whose death puts an end to the theatricals in MP
Lord Ravenshaw here = P&P’s Lord ___ + MP’s Lord Ravenshaw, “one of the most correct men in England”
Lady Catherine = P&P’s Lady Catherine (of course)
Lady Ravenshaw = MP’s Lady Ravenshaw, who was playing Agatha very well
Lord Rochford = Colonel Fitzwilliam’s implied older brother in P&P
Lady Anne Brydges = mine, all mine!
Lady Mary Carlisle = the mother of the children whose existence necessitates the governess (playing the cottager’s wife) in MP
Colonel Fitzwilliam = P&P’s Colonel Fitzwilliam
Anne de Bourgh, Fitzwilliam Darcy, Georgiana Darcy = P&P
Sophia and Margaret Carlisle = children overseen by MP’s governess

Tagged: #me overthinking things? it can't be

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Current Music: Twilight (Electric Light Orchestra)

Anyway, the actual current Fitzwilliam headcanons c. 1796 [assuming a 1795-6 calendar for P&P, which I do], dramatis personae-style

CATHERINE, Dowager Countess of Ravenshaw—the very elderly grandmother to Lord Ravenshaw, Lady Catherine de Bourgh, and Lady Anne Darcy. She is reserved in person, though opinionated when she does speak, and maintains a lively correspondence with her family and friends while living quietly at one of the smaller Fitzwilliam estates.

EDWARD FITZWILLIAM, Earl of Ravenshaw—the wealthy and powerful (if short) head of the Fitzwilliam family. Lord Ravenshaw is interested in his near and extended family, Whig politics, and private theatricals. He is otherwise a severe but good-natured man with a good reputation among his peers and dependents alike.

LADY CATHERINE DE BOURGH, née Lady Catherine Fitzwilliam—the elder of Lord Ravenshaw’s two sisters. Despite her arrogant, domineering personality, she is generally on good terms with the other Fitzwilliams, whom she regards with pride and something like affection; in particular, she genuinely loved and was loved by her sister, Lady Anne Darcy.

MARY, Countess of Ravenshaw—the earl’s gracious, accomplished, and generally accommodating wife. Lady Ravenshaw is conscious of coming from a family of lesser fortune but greater age than the Fitzwilliams, but also somewhat daunted by the strong personalities around her. She is, unexpectedly, an excellent speaker and happily joins in her husband’s theatrical enthusiasms.

RICHARD FITZWILLIAM, Viscount Rochford—the eldest of Lord and Lady Ravenshaw’s children. He is handsome, kind-hearted, and agreeable enough in his way, but withdrawn, shy, and intensely high-strung. At thirty-five, he has never married, courted, or even seriously flirted with anyone, preferring books and the company of those he already knows.

LADY ANNE BRYDGES, née Lady Anne Fitzwilliam—Lord and Lady Ravenshaw’s elder daughter. She was a generally pleasant but very stubborn girl, and remains a generally pleasant but very stubborn woman, though she has become more assertive among her easy-going husband and in-laws than among her own intense and generally forceful relations.

LADY MARY CARLISLE, née Lady Mary Fitzwilliam—Lord and Lady Ravenshaw’s younger daughter. She bears a strong physical and temperamental resemblance to her sister Anne, though she is more reserved and abrupt. She was married young to a baron’s heir, but he predeceased his father and Lady Mary returned to her family with her two daughters.

COLONEL THE HONOURABLE JOHN FITZWILLIAM—the younger son of Lord and Lady Ravenshaw, and at thirty, their youngest child. While conscious of his comparatively disadvantaged position among his relatives, he is very loyal and close to them, especially his Darcy cousins. He is usually easy-going, but strong-minded and very pragmatic, all of which won the approval of his uncle Darcy.

ANNE DE BOURGH—the only child and heir of Sir Lewis and Lady Catherine de Bourgh, and thus niece to Lord Ravenshaw and Lady Anne Darcy. This Anne is quite genuinely frail, unlike the usually hearty Fitzwilliams, and has been sheltered to the point of suffocation by her mother, but also over-indulged by her. At twenty-eight, she is passive and resentful of slights, but not malicious.

FITZWILLIAM DARCY—the only son of Christopher Darcy, a wealthy, influential Fitzwilliam ally, and Lady Anne Darcy, the beloved sister of Lord Ravenshaw and Lady Catherine. Their affection extends easily to Darcy, whose personality falls well within the ordinary Fitzwilliam range—proud, intelligent, and forceful, but combining reserve and awkwardness with a basic good nature and competence.

GEORGIANA DARCY—the younger child and only surviving daughter of Christopher and Lady Anne Darcy. Her brother was the indulged youngest of the Fitzwilliam grandchildren until Georgiana’s birth twelve years after his own, yet he doted on her from that moment, as did their relatives and servants. She is nevertheless not at all spoiled, but shy, anxious, and uncertain of herself.

SOPHIA CARLISLE—the quiet, intelligent daughter of Lady Mary Carlisle and the Hon. Stephen Carlisle. Her father’s sudden death left her family as something like dependents on the new heir, which grated on Lady Mary. She received permission to return to her father’s household with the girls, and Sophia and Margaret were gladly welcomed by the Fitzwilliams.

MARGARET “MEG” CARLISLE—the younger daughter of Lady Mary Carlisle and the Hon. Stephen Carlisle. Meg is more outgoing and high-spirited than Sophia in general, but prone to fits of absent-minded silence. As the first children living at Ecclesford in a generation, Sophia and Margaret are particularly beloved by their grandparents, uncles, and most of their cousins.

Tagged: #i know this is probably of interest to like ... no one #but it's helpful to me and was fun to do SO

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I still think about Donald Greene’s article about how the (maybe) Tory-aligned Bennet-Gardiners force the Whig-coded Darcy-Fitzwilliams to take them seriously, and … the underlying concept is so interesting!

but, also:

1) there’s no suggestion that Elizabeth cares about her family’s politics, whatever they may be, or that they bear on her choices and perspectives; additionally, she’s often positioned as out of sync with most of her family and it’s implied that she and Jane have been strongly influenced by their frequent visits to the Gardiners, whose politics we also know nothing about

(otoh, Darcy’s combination of elitism and progressivism is super stereotypically Whig, not to mention his name)

2) even if you see the Bennets as Tory-aligned, Darcy is in no way assimilated into their world and its politics; there’s no indication that he ever likes Mr Bennet; it’s Elizabeth who is longing for Pemberley by the end; and the final emphasis is on the tight connection between her, her powerful landlord of a husband, and her mercantile relations.

It would, of course, be odd to say it’s the other way around and the Darcy-Fitzwilliams force Elizabeth to take them seriously (lol Lady Catherine), because the dynamics of the novel are very much more complex than that. But it is certainly Elizabeth who is actively eager to enter Darcy’s world while Darcy is at all points uneasy with hers. If Darcy and Elizabeth are politically active as a couple, it is vastly more likely for Elizabeth to become a Whig hostess than Darcy a Tory sympathizer.

(And in my headcanon, that’s exactly what happens!)

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Also in response to this post, cosmonauthill said:

Is it also possible that the viscount was just enough older that he was already paired off to, if they’re new-but-rich, the daughter of an old-but-poor family, or vice versa? I’ve seen it in a few fics that he’s married to the daughter of a Notable Family and it does make sense, I think

I replied:

Possible? Sure.

Also, by that time, arranged marriages between young children were pretty odd—imo it’s one of the things that’s meant to make Lady Catherine ridiculous and old-fashioned. So it’s possible that her brother wouldn’t have been up for it, or he’s enough like her to have already tried the same thing with someone else, or any number of reasons that an Anne/viscount match wouldn’t have turned out.

But I think that if Lady Catherine had ever considered the viscount a viable option, she’d be less obsessed with Anne/Darcy in particular. Anne could have made a good match already, given her birth, connections, and vast wealth (unusually so even for aristocratic women), but Lady Catherine seems set on her marrying Darcy specifically, from the moment of his birth.

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Current Music: Don't Stop Believin' (Journey)

emily-elizabeth-rose said:

Re your meta on Ladies Catherine and Anne being close due to a distant father, I realised that Lady C was likely not close with her brother the Earl. Her father likely doting on the son while being distant to the girls causing resentment. So even with Darcy slow to marry Anne, Col. Fitzwilliam not raised as an alternative, even though he would come to Rosings rather than Anne leaving. Why not Col. Fitz? Because Lady C doesn't like the Earl and doesn't want his son to marry her daughter :0

I replied:

Hmm. While we know that Lady Catherine firmly believes daughters never matter to their fathers, which presumably extends to her relationship with her own father, all we know about her relationship with her brother is that his son comes to visit her. So it’s hard to extrapolate much from that. It does seem probable that someone with Lady Catherine’s personality would likely not have taken favouritism over her well, but the form that displeasure would have taken …?

The question I have isn’t about Colonel Fitzwilliam, since marrying a younger son without a significant fortune of his own wouldn’t be a great match for Anne. Sole, well-born heiresses of large estates were rare, and could hold out for very good matches; Fitzwilliam would only be a real possibility if Lady Catherine was absolutely set on Anne marrying within the family and his older brother was already married.

The real question, for me, is why Lady Catherine preferred baby Darcy over the viscount.

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I’ve been trawling my headcanons tag, and like… 99.9% of them are still dear to my soul.

[Later that day]

Eh, pulling them out of the tags:

- #1 at all times: Darcy is on the autistic spectrum (this is a pretty common headcanon, for kind of obvious reasons).

- Luke Skywalker uses the Skywalkers’ ancestral language with Anakin on the second Death Star; Anakin uses the language when he proclaims “I am your father,” but resolutely sticks to Basic on DSII until he’s reclaimed himself and is dying (I wrote a fic about it here).

- The Stewards’ origins as 1) a family of ultimately royal origin and 2) the descendants of a Faithful family in Númenor come together with the House of Húrin originally going back to a Faithful family established by Númenor’s first princess, Tindómiel.

- Vanozza dei Cattanei in The Borgias is Castilian, a courtesan out of Toledo originally named Juana de Castañeda.

- Darcy and Elizabeth have separate bedrooms along the lines of Congreve’s Millamant and Mirabell.

- The Elvish aesthetic of the First Age is primarily ancient Egyptian and ancient Greek (to go with Tolkien’s Egyptian-Byzantine-Roman influences with the Dúnedain).

- Kuvira from Legend of Korra chose to call herself ‘Kuvira’ after she was abandoned by her parents, guided by her quasi-foster mother Suyin Beifong.

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I felt like putting together dramatis personae of my headcanons for the Fitzwilliam and extended Darcy families, and by the time I was putting together a chart for the latter, was zooming merrily along. (Am I procrastinating grading? Maybe.)

Anyway, the actual current Fitzwilliam headcanons c. 1796 [assuming a 1795-6 calendar for P&P, which I do]:

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Current Mood: stressed
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After all these years, probably the P&P headcanon that makes me happiest (after autistic!Darcy, because #relatable) is that Lord ___ in P&P (by deduction an earl) is the same person as the Earl of Ravenshaw in Mansfield Park.

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I'm much more concerned about my meta than my fic, tbh.

But Tumblr drama aside, one of my favourite Austen details is this:

“Mr Wentworth was nobody, I remember; quite unconnected; nothing to do with the Strafford family.”

This is Sir Walter Elliot’s dismissal of the Wentworths’ claim to genteel status, but also so much more. See, “the Strafford family” were 100% real.

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