Anghraine

kareenvorbarra responded to this post:

I’d die on this hill but I can’t, morgoth won’t let me, he just makes me sit up here and watch people ignore the edain

jubaah said:

always and forever

kaz said:

beren, húrin, huor, haleth, túrin, nienor, tuor, and like eight dozen others would like a word

I replied (particularly to kareenvorbarra, but also in general):

dfjk; right? unless it somehow serves the purposes of Elf Discourse, it’s like they’re wallpaper. D:

There’s a line in LOTR about how the people in Minas Tirith stare at Legolas because they’ve never seen anyone so beautiful, and—

Well, it presumably predates Tolkien’s later idea that Númenóreans are barely distinguishable from Elves in appearance; modern Gondorians might look different these days, but at least some of them are said to look like ancient Númenóreans.

And, after all, some of the Edain also were virtually indistinguishable from Elves. Tolkien’s later work tends to treat the human-Elvish difference of appearance as more of a spectrum than a hard line. It seems a little continuity break, if a very minor one.

… But “Elvish” there is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Elves don’t all look alike! And the Edain who look like Elves specifically look like Eldar, so perhaps when Tolkien says Númenóreans looked like Elves, he means Eldarin Elves in particular.

Headcanon conclusion: Legolas looks Silvan, and Gondorians just think Silvan Elves are super hot.

Tagged: #i'm really entertained by the idea that gondorians think noldor et al look 'like us but More' but silvan elves are where it's really at #deep blogging #truly the deepest #also i appreciate that this is apparently reciprocal to some extent? at least legolas thought boromir was notably pretty

vardasvapors on Tumblr asked:

WAIT I FIGURED ONE OUT. One of your Tindomiel posts inspired me: do you have ideas about Elros's wife? (Imo one of the most wtf occurrences of unnamed women.) As a person, founding queen, wife, mother, sister-in-law, or whatever, any of the facets.

I replied:

I agree! It is definitely one of the most ????? omissions, and when it comes to Númenórean women, that’s saying a lot.

Rambling a bit:

I generally prefer to wiggle around canon rather than rejecting the unpleasant aspects of it, so I start with the fact that her absence is baffling. What might have kept her out of the historical record? Even a partial, male-dominated historical record?

Well, one possibility is that she had a normal lifespan, which in the historical view would make her… kind of a blip in Elros’ half a millennium of life. If so, Elros almost certainly married her well after establishing Númenor (SA 32), since their firstborn child was born twenty-nine years later (SA 61). In fact, it’s very possible that she herself was born on Númenor (though in that case, she could have a longer lifespan).

I also tend to assume she wasn’t that politically prominent (more Laura than Hillary, say—not that a US First Lady is like a Queen of Númenor, but you get the idea). I don’t just mean in terms of her own conduct, but her family. We do occasionally hear something when the queen’s family is notable: Almarian’s father was captain of the ships, Erendis’ was a descendant of the lords of the house of Bëor, Inzilbêth was the Lord of Andúnië’s niece. So I’m thinking that her own background was not particularly exceptional.

Another detail I find interesting is her four children’s names. One is clearly named after Elros’ family (Tindómiel, the ‘morning star,’ obviously refers to Eärendil). One seems a vaguer reference to the Edain. But the other two, including the firstborn son, are named for the Valar. Considering that one or both of the other children are connected to Elros, I kind of like the idea that she was the one behind Vardamir and Manwendil. So I’m envisioning her as an intense devotee of the Valar, particularly Elbereth (it is the firstborn named for Elbereth, the third for Manwë).

Also for consideration: her eldest, Vardamir, was a dedicated scholar with zero interest in politics. He took the name Nolimon, something like ‘loremaster.’ That doesn’t necessarily reflect on his mother, but it’s something to consider, particularly given her apparent obscurity.

So: I tend to envision her as a bookish type like her son, and also like him, largely disinterested in public life. Originally, she could be a wise-woman à la Adanel—odds are that she’s also Hadorian. She’s a dedicated scholar and profoundly devout in her veneration of the Valar, particularly Elbereth.

heckofabecca responded to this post:

what do you mean, it doesn’t make sense???

I replied:

Well, there’s a basic quandary that Tolkien wrangled with:

1. Sindarin is used conversationally in Gondor.

2. Gondorian Sindarin is largely unchanged from classic Sindarin.

( Read more... )